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A little help driving without traction and stability control

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by RavageTheEarth, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. So my progression of this game so far has gone like this:

    Play with no TC and SC, get aggravated, turn on SC, get aggravated, turn on TC AND SB, want to drive with no TC and SC. Rinse and repeat.

    So here I am now forcing myself to learn and deal with not going fast (successfully) for a while.

    What are some tips you guys can give me on this subject? My issue is that I'm always spinning out and once I do spin out there is absolutely no way for me to recover and I helplessly smash into a wall.

    I'm making myself out to suck, but I'm actually decent and there are a lot of cars I can drive pretty well around the track with no SC and TC. I just can't begin to understand how you guys can drive some of these high powered RWD cars around the track quickly with no assists.

    So here I am at your mercy. Halp!
     

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  3. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    Put the assists on the Pro preset. So you'll just use ABS and TC if the car has them. Meaning both will tend to be enabled for the great part of cars in the game, because they are modern cars. What Traction Control does is to prevent the car from slipping away when you're accelerating fast coming out of the corner, usually in 1st or 2nd gear corners, because is there where you need to be most careful with the throttle if TC is off.
    Keep Stability control off in racing simulators. That is only when you buy a super car in real life and want to be extra careful.
     
    colombianomd, nanucq and LeSunTzu like this.
  4. arthur666

    arthur666 Alien

    A great driver and pilot once told me "Keep your inputs smooth. Pedals and wheel should not move like on/off switches." You'll have less understeer with smooth steering inputs, and be able to play with the edge of traction with smooth brake and throttle inputs. You'll eventually get a feel for when the car is about to break loose.

    And it's ok to drive slow! Don't get discouraged. (and you're probably not as bad as you think: we can't all be aliens ;) ) More important to always be in control of the car. Ability to drive fast will come with time.
     
    PugGrimmo, pex, alex72 and 5 others like this.
  5. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    It's even worse, AC doesn't simulate real stability helping systems like ESP. It's just a oversimplified handling, get your hands off SC as soon as you can. Also don't listen to the purist that will show up soon, factory settings on TC and ABS are fine even in race cars. Some cars are designed to be driven with TC (although it can be more fun without).

    Aside from that, I especially agree with arthur. Don't try to catch your spins, focus on control so they don't happen.
    For more specific answers you'll probably need to bring a combo/situation. A video or replay is even better.
     
    pex, alex72, RavageTheEarth and 3 others like this.
  6. gregack

    gregack Racer

    It sounds like you have problems to deal with oversteering.
    Try to be patient. Most of the time it is better (and faster) to be a little bit more careful with the throttle at corner exit than to risk wheelspin and oversteer.
    Do you have vsync activated? Turn it off, this can help with the input-lag.

    Biggest mistake imo why people lose their cars is, that they overcorrect after the car starts to oversteer. Try to use as little steering-input as possible but as much as needed. There are some cars which generally tend to oversteer but are quite easy to catch. Practice with the KTM (also a perfect car for heel&toe ;-) ), the Lotus 25 (not really "oversteery" but good for training) or the 458 (without TC of course) to go slow into the corners, bring them to slide a bit mid-corner (early throttle) and then try to catch them (countersteer). This sort of practice won't make you faster per se, but it helps to feel the car better.

    Don't give up, we all had similar problems when we started simracing.
    Good luck and have fun! :)

    Edit. Also FOV! Google "AC field of view calculator"
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
    f1webberfan likes this.
  7. Turn everything off and start with the M3 E30 on 90's tyres. Then move on to the Lotus Elise on street tyres. If you can handle these properly you should have the basics down, then it's just a matter of being a little easier on the throttle for the more powerful cars. Try the E92 M3 after those most likely, it's quite tail happy on throttle but easy to drive.
     
  8. Torcano

    Torcano Alien

    A video of what you are having trouble with would help in diagnosing your issue. SC is pure garbage, wheel users shouldn't use it at all IMO. Driving with assists off is all razzle dazzle in road cars, but when it comes to GT3 cars and such they are designed to be used in tandem with driver aids, especially ABS which most real GT3 drivers lean on quite hard. And do what William suggested, and don't for the love of jeebus use optimal track settings to practice on... optimum track = spawn of beelzebub. Green track will keep you on your toes as you will be hitting your limit more often and will give you more of an idea of what the car's driving dynamics actually are and will help you adapt to it much faster.

    For street cars with no TC and ABS you gotta just be delicate with the inputs. For example, (no shilling here) this here be an ancient video of mine with the NSX on Lake Louise with no assists, old track surface (quite low grip levels) and cold temps. See the pedal bar on the bottom left and notice how narrow the line between neutral and power understeer/oversteer is in the throttle department, and how much pedal modulation is going on even on relatively straight bits of the track. Bad conditions = more work = more practice = profit.

     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
  9. V8_KB

    V8_KB Alien

    What William said. Start with low powered cars (those mentioned by him are great) and after a lot of practice move on to the next one. You don't need crazy power at the beginning to understand the basics.

    I'd say use one track to keep it simple, at least till the moment when you will get better. It will make it easier to find braking points when moving up from one car to another.

    Of course try to be smooth with your inputs. Turn off timing app or even all apps, to avoid the distraction. Lap times don't matter now, focus on the driving.

    You got some good tips in previous posts, use them.
    Good luck and have fun.
     
  10. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    Dont forget that you can have different levels of TC/ABS in some cars. The lower the number is the higher the TC/ABS level will be.
    You change by pressing ctrl+t =TC and ctrl+a = ABS when on track. If you are faster/having more fun with ABS or TC on dont be scared to use it if the real car has it and of course the other way around.
     
    colombianomd likes this.
  11. mistery

    mistery Hardcore Simmer

    It's likely you need to start braking earlier before corners to make sure you have time to settle the car for turn in, don't mash the accelerator as soon as you are off the brakes. Feed the throttle nice and smooth only getting deeper down the pedal travel once you are straightening out the steering wheel. Don't steer more than is needed, modern cars don't require as much steering input as machines from the golden eras.

    Basically you need to set your mind on not over driving the car, as others have said above, smooth input gets you a long way. Also check out some theory while practicing. Start with the traction circle to better understand the physical possibilities of tires and cornering. example here: http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/traction_circle.html
     
  12. mannitom77

    mannitom77 Racer

    What is with people who want to drive without TC and/or ABS?:eek: Where this come from? If car have it in real life then it's pretty much meant to use in game too. It's not some artificial help for driving, it's what car have in real life too. I really recommend people to forgot this urban legend that you're not a real sim racer if you use any kind of assists. And now I'm speaking race cars like GT2/GT3. If OP means cars with no real life TC then it's a different thing. Then it just needs practicing.
     
  13. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    Yeah, for some people it seems like its really important to simulate some things but if other things are simulated its not hardcore anymore. :)
     
  14. F430_458_F12

    F430_458_F12 Alien

    G27 is Stefano Casillo's favorite wheel, btw :) ;)

    Concerning driving without aids:

    The key to keeping the car on track is to have fluid movements that give the tyres plenty of time to bite into a corner. Without video evidence of your driving style, I can only surmise what the problem might be...I suspect you're turning too late or early, the chassis is overloaded, you get understeer, then oversteer when you compensate, then the car has spun into the barrier. Control of the throttle is VERY important: do not treat it like a on/off switch, rather a variable dial that requires precision. You can steer a car with the throttle, too: if you feel a car won't turn in a corner, pull off the throttle a little, the car should become more agile. If the car feels it's getting too agile, straighten the steering and add throttle, but not too much or the car will spin. It's a dance, and you must rely on the feedback coming through the wheel to help inform you what combination of moves are required for a turn. It seems hard, but it really isn't. :)

    How high is your FFB gain? If it isn't high enough, you might not be feeling enough of the tyre forces to make good steering judgments while driving.

    You might want to upload a short video to YT or some other host site to show us exactly what happens, we might be able to offer more help.
     
  15. nanucq

    nanucq Racer

    Pro settings in all time, it will use assists (ABS and TC) if they exist on the real car.
    Then always the same method when I'm learning a new car: Choose a track you perfectly know and adapted to the car.

    Then Force yourself to be SLOW, very slow, be smooth with inputs. Try to brake sooner than necessary, an unbalanced car in a corner require skills and a lot of practice Sometime you will think that you are slow, but when you realize that the speedo tells you 70km/h in the f....ing airpin you always spin, then you'll understand you are way too fast and that the most common mistake is to OVERDRIVE the car.
    At that point, don't focus on lap time, it's a bad advisor. After a few turns just increase the speed just a little (you still have to feel slow) but don't change your braking points. When you master the speed in corners, begin to brake later. Repeat until you know and feel the car.

    Understanding car's limits and torque distribution is vital to be fast ;) Physics laws are what they are, no electronic assist will save you from a very unadapted speed/balance :)
     
  16. Well, should have mentioned to keep ABS if the real car uses it. TC however you have no reason to use it, in any cars, even GT2/GT3. AC's algorithm is too simplified and the TC doesn't work like a racing TC should, thus it limits power delivery too much and hinders your driving. At least that's how it feels like. The GT cars are plenty easy to drive without it.
     
    donShere likes this.
  17. Horus

    Horus Alien

    Top Gear. The Asshat J Clarkson used to say turn this that and the other off all the time. Turn the TC and ABS off slowly if you so wish, but if you are on the grass/spinning more than going forward then you are slower with it off than on. As so many have said before, drive with the least amount of input, smooth steering without quick jerky left right inputs and you should be able to progress nicely. Good luck.
     
  18. mannitom77

    mannitom77 Racer

    Of course TC in game isn't the same or 100% realistic as real life TC. It's a game. But what comes to very competitive close racing with 25 cars on a lower grip, I strongly disagree what you said. Yes, GT cars are pretty easy to drive fast, but it's a different thing to drive really fast lap after lap with other cars around you and try to overtake or defend others as well.

    I would love to see some of your times without TC in low grip and medium tyres. It could work somehow on some tracks and/or cars, but I still doubt that it would be any faster.
     
  19. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Andy-R

    Andy-R Alien

    I think the furthest ive made it with tc on is about half a lap. either im trying to get as much power down as possible or the game is. not both of us :p... and I cant stop myself from doing it.

    it kind of reminds me of some modern forklifts. they have so many safety features that they feel less safe to me, im constantly trying to predict what the safety features are going to do and be in sync with them rather than just focusing on what im doing.

    I think in real life or real competitive sim racing use whatever is fastest but if you race offline mostly or in public/casual races use what is most enjoyable to you. its a game after all :)
     
    Minolin likes this.
  21. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    I thinking TC at about 9-10 that im using on gt2/3, depending on car of course, does what it does irl. At stock (1) it cleary limit how fast you can get out of some turns though.

    Which game is most complex with TC out there as it is atm?
     

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