A thread for project cars

Yes, car handling feels funny in PCars, but it will never feels as real, as in Assetto Corsa,
which makes me more fun.

Maybe because i was infected 1997 by Geoff Crammond

 

You are not going to far wrong at all. Stick with what makes you happy, AC has the same appeal to me. On that score I wish PCars all the best, but it is not for me (yet). Maybe if it is kept upto date and cleaned up it might become a game I will play, but at the moment I do not see that. AC is the ruination of your sim life. Once you fall for AC no other sim will do. I even went back to rF2 the other day, it was pants. So updated and messed with GTR and GTR2, loads of fun but old and sad to say had it's day. Tried GT Legends, gave up put P&G on and fell in love again with such great work, but still it was missing something. NetKar Pro, a total animal of a sim, nothing competed with it until the mess that was it's netcode, but still Ooooyeah!

NetKar really brought home what I love about Kunos work and also what I am waiting to see implemented in AC. Switches that switch, tyre models that were harsh but honest (flat spotting in a heart beat on the out lap), dust on the visor, only a set amount of ripoffs to clear the way. The garage gui was so much better and the choice between pit and garage was a stroke or genius allowing you to keep your old tyres or throw some fresh ones on. Netkar really has lots to offer AC and I for one hope that those gems that made NetKar NetKar are implemented in AC.


P.S. I don't know what it is but that Alfa in P&G3 is just such a great car, it is freakin amazing, the Cortina is not far away but the Alfa, man that is one fantastic piece of pixel joy right there.

P.P.S. This was in reply to Christopher Low, the quote did not get implemented, or I screwed up. Still there you go. LOL

 

Has anyone tried the rain/storm simulation in pcars? To me, it seems the same type of driving and recovery maneuvers as in clear track, only with a bit less lateral grip during rain. And during rainy track surface, doesn't seem to be difference between water sections and more clear tarmac (but still wet). The racing line of the track is conveniently without water puddles, but there isn't any difference when you start driving on the area with more water on the track.

 

i havent tried it, but have been wondering since i saw some screenshots about that.

 

Night races could be fun in AC
I wonder how much work it would be to implement?

Rain can be great but not for 35 laps :/
Most league racers don't prepare for rain unless it's predicted by the host.

Rain in pcars looks great, but IMO the most/only fun with rain is the changes forcing you to change tires and a setup that fits both dry and wet =changeable weather.
The option for changeable weather in pcars is poor - the host has to put in what weather is wanted when..
E.g. "20% rain" (with a randomized decision of where those 20% of rain would come) would be a much more fun factor, also for the host (hint hint, Akunos)

 

I started the second round of comparison with the BMW M3 GT2 at Silverstone but I figured that there’s no point in spending more time on this since the basic traits of pCars’ FFB/physics character remain the same no matter which car you chose. In a nutshell: my main problems are

1) Disconnected FFB (it remains constant no matter what the car does) during braking/off-throttle/corner entry.
2) Nervous micro-movements/slips/rotations during corners even when driven below the limit on a smooth surface. Again: no FFB information along with it.
3) Suspicious rotation behavior in general. Example: plowing wildly over front tyres before bus stop at Spa – going straight with locked fronts on tarmac – across curbs – instant “weightless” 180° at a remaining ~40 kph.

So if you just bought pCars and are not biased in any way you will certainly get used to the handling and have a good time with it. However…

My personal pCars experience – a story of frustration
(feel free to skip ;-)​

To me It’s really frustrating that it ended up being just a fun racer with some sim sprinkled on it. Why? Because I was told otherwise! The whole wmd community was told otherwise. It was supposed to be THE sim with focus clearly on the driving experience. This was clearly stated in the vision statement and marketing material. It has been repeated in the forum by Ian Bell (SMS president), Andy Garton (head of production), Casey Ringley and Andrew Weber (both physics devs) as members raised concerns about the focus drifting away into the bling-bling zone.

Back in mid 2013 to mid 2014 pCars felt really promising. The new tyre model was there, the physics and the FFB were excellent, tyres would heat up, overheat – it was all in there. So I tried to generate usable data for the devs by making camber/tyre pressure tests and posting the resulting times, tyre temps and what not (camber did not work back then...dunno about today). After the third test or so there was still no response from the devs which got my suspicious. Since my efforts to make that sim better did not generate any feedback, I stopped.

I also got involved in a debate about burnout possibility in pCars’ GT3 cars. No matter which tyre or weather – they just wouldn’t do number 11s even when they were stone cold and high on pressure. I thought this must be some sort of temporary bug but as I kept asking about it the devs said that it’s ok because of the long gearing and the slicks being so very sticky. Andrew Weber chimed in with an anecdote of a GT3 car snapping it’s drive shaft on launch in the pit lane due to the sticky tyres. And that was it – no further discussion, no evaluation if this might affect higher-speed handling.

In the meantime I was not sure anymore which tyre to choose, how to ACTUALLY choose it (bugs, bugs, bugs), what FFB to set, which session type to run and I got tired of re-assigning the whole control scheme and all settings each day (SMS did not (care to) find a way to make pCars remember simple numeric values entered by the user without possible physics-cock-ups). Also, all cars, even the ones that were good before had turned into something worse and I thought “Ok, they have proven that they can do it and they claim that they’re still aiming at simulation. It’s gonna be really, really good in the end.”. I stopped following pCars and bought AC even though I hadn’t liked the tech demo before. I was immediately relieved about how good a driving simulation with customer equipment can work! I still considered playing pCars, again once it’s out.
So now it’s out, my expectations that have been raised and well maintained by the devs themselves are sky-high and then I drive it and my jaw just drops. The physics are, given what they were once and compared to what the devs claim they are, horrible.

I don’t care about the 50 bucks I once spent on this. That’s ok. It’s just the vast difference between what was promised by the devs and what came out in the end that causes the frustration. There were people in the WMD forums that literally spent their lifes there, providing calculation spreadsheets, manufacturer data en masse and answering each forum request within minutes. I really feel sorry for them when I see now what pCars has become.

One thing is for sure: pCars 2, which has already been announced by Ian Bell will be community-funded, again will definitely take place without my time and money.

Cheers
Chris

P.s.: I’m not a super conspirative guy but the idea that the vast number of FFB sliders spread generously in different sub-menus of pCars is there to spread the message: “This sim can do it all. If it doesn’t suit you then it’s your fault for not tweaking it right.” Sounds very plausible.
You can already see it works by the people in this thread stating “Yeah, it’s not that good but then again there’s so much to fiddle with…”.

 

Post of the day!

Cheers
Robin

 

@LeDude83 aka Chris, so much truth in your post, thank you for taking the time to write it.
2 points I would like to comment upon in light of what is developing with pcars

1. what the marketing and mission statement, usually marketing come up with those, so same thing really, are what any company would like the potential user/customer to believe, they may try to stick to it or not, usually it does not work, either because they are not capable or just plain lying about their intention, in Case of SMS and many other it might be more efficient to look at what they have done in the past instead of what they are trying to make us believe. History does not always repeat itself and people can change, but usually it does not happen.
2. So true about their is so many settings, so if it feel poor it is because you have not spent enough time trying to make it work, the same was true during the evolution of the game, you would try a particular build and find it lacking in driving feeling, and the answer was , yes but that build was bad , the new one is MUCH, better. Funny , when we tried the first demo of AC back when it was Magione and the Elise, it felt just great, we all fall in love, wanted more, and we are all consume with passion since, none of you need to adjust of the menu everywhere and you will find SIM nirvana.

As I have mention in another post last week prior to the launch, based on my experience trying a few build, anyone believing the hype and thinking Pcars is anything else than an entertaining racing game will be disappointed, I believe it now more than ever.

 

Damn... 29 pages. Ok, I start reading.
In all honesty, though, in my case I think Dirt Rally has a bit "stolen the thunder" of PCars. If I think about it, for all tarmac stuff AC is enough for me. If there's an "empty" area now it is rally.
I am more likely to spend my money on Dirt Rally at the moment.

I am sure that the vast majority of the public who don't know about AC will probably buy PCars, and that is a thing. The niche of sim-racers may think differently though. Whatever, the more racing sims, the better

 

Spending 300 hours in AC and still being considered as a "not so good but OK driver" made me one of the best driver during an online race vs 28 drivers at Spa on PC.

 

Showoff!

 

Your point 1. actually makes me realize what has sort of happened: SIM enthusiasts like me and you have been used to fund a game that is now an arcadey fun racer for console kids...oh the irony :-D

But yeah, a look in the past will usually tell something about the furure - lesson learned ;-)

 

Was going to watch a replay on Nordschleife but it only was 2 minutes. Do I need to change a setting or something for it to save more?

 

Only race sessions have the full replay length, in practice it only saves the last 2 minutes.

 

I want to thank you for that!

Oh, okay. Thanks

 

Dang, i can't find where to setup initial fuel. Is it default to full always at race, regardless of # of laps? Nor could I find other setup adjustments (ex. Wing, camber, etc.),isn't there any? Nice to enjoy the Formula A @ Spa with my kid.

-via Tapatalk (S4)

 

Thankyou for taking the time to share your thoughts and confirm what i've been thinking.

There's no road feel, the rear end steps out with no warnings through the FFB.
Pcars to me is totally based on visual cues.
I cannot feal what the car is doing through the wheel, only what i can see on screen.

AC wins hands down for me.
But for folks with consoles... they at least have something to choose other than the GT/Forza games.

 

I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else. I exaggerated to prove my point: with the original concept back in the day you couldn't have raised money from casual and console racers but from simmers. With the final result you could never raise (that much) money from simmers but very well so from casual/console racers. Actually a genius work to get money from both!
You are living proof that of course one can be casual racer and sim enthusiast at the same time ;-)

 

Exactly my words. I have no problem with pCars or other games, enjoyed quite a few, but when I lock on to one title in a genre, I want to plunge deep into it's fundamentals. That's why I like Dirt Rally, it's far from AC but still good and entertaining in it's own right. And I haven't played AC since Rally came out, so I doubt I can find room for PCars, my track racer is AC. I want to feel home immediately when I fire it up, with familiar intuitive physics. A sale on steam and the fact that I have a few guys on my friendlist that play pcars, would be what made me purchase it.

I can't be tired of titles coming out for me to choose from, but the dudes outthere that feel and urge to defend or point fingers at titles truly tires me. Please stop for just 10 minutes

 

Hehe, i didnt get offended but i actually enjoy the game and without people who funded the project its very likely that i wouldnt be playing this game right now. I should have put a "" behind my post.

from one thing to another, i just had a race against the AI and a car passed me, by driving trough my car. lol.. if you guys have ever driven on nordschleife tourist in AC you know how your car is like a ghost in the pit, thats how it was, but the difference was that this was in a race. (this was in pCars)

edit: Its to bad that so many people seems to be dissapointed with how the game turned out to be. Is it possible that it is because of the same physics was going to consoles? As far as i know physics is pretty cpu demanding.