1. Do you need support for Assetto Corsa Competizione? Please use the proper forum below and ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Logs" folder in your c:\users\*youruser*\AppData\Local\AC2\Saved. The "AppData" folder is hidden by default, check "Hidden items" in your Windows view properties. If you report a crash, ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Crashes" folder in the same directory. Do not post "I have the same issue" in an existing thread with a game crash, always open your own thread. Do not PM developers and staff members for personal troubleshooting and support.
  2. As part of our continuous maintenance and improvements to Assetto Corsa Competizione we will be releasing small updates on a regular basis during the esports season which might not go through the usual announcement process detailing the changes until a later version update where these changes will be listed retrospectively.
  3. If ACC doesn't start with an error or the executable is missing, please add your entire Steam directory to the exceptions in your antivirus software, run a Steam integrity check or reinstall the game altogether. Make sure you add the User/Documents/Assetto Corsa Competizione folder to your antivirus/Defender exceptions and exclude it from any file sharing app (GDrive, OneDrive or Dropbox)! The Corsair iCue software is also known to conflict with Input Device initialization, if the game does not start up and you have such devices, please try disabling the iCue software and try again. [file:unknown] [line: 95] secure crt: invalid error is a sign of antivirus interference, while [Pak chunk signing mismatch on chunk] indicates a corrupted installation that requires game file verification.
  4. When reporting an issue with saved games, please always zip and attach your entire User/Documents/Assetto Corsa Competizione/Savegame folder, along with the logs and the crash folder (when reporting related to a crash).

Talk about that AI

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by piano.player, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. Don't worry it wasn't directed to you at all. Just commenting the usual "should hire somebody" thing.. people seem to think that AI experts in racing games are all around the world where, the reality of things that the number of games that can be counted to have better AI compared to AC in comparable situations, in the last 15 years, can be counted on one hand.
     
    Mogster, AC_RAF and mms like this.
  2. Ischemica

    Ischemica Hardcore Simmer

    "learn to discuss without being so insulting"(Martcerv quote) is probably the most simple and yet least understood phrase in the entire world of internet communication.:confused:
     
  3. fbiehne

    fbiehne Hardcore Simmer

    I heard they get some packs of »Superintelligent AI« next week, but that’ll cost double than the »Normal AI« (which is made in China anyways). One could also grab some bottles of «Sim value +« while being there.
     
    Nekrobob likes this.
  4. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    I haven't driven that car at Monza but can say that setting up cars for max aero there in any other car I have ran simply wont give the best results, maybe a rather weak field but running gt2 cars in the past I don't ever remember running them max aero at any track and not at Monza ever for best times. Possibly AI there may have poor setups but you can force a setup to them I don't actually remember now what you call your setup I am sure someone here can help out with that.
     
  5. mtz.enjoi

    mtz.enjoi Racer

    I recently enjoy doing Trackdays as my single player practice sessions and i noticed that the higher class cars are not that stupid as i thought they would be.
    A friend of me proved the stupidity in a video that showcases the AIs problems when overtaking slower class cars. Clearly they had no problems fighting each other but when overtaking lower class cars they didnt even try to, but intead coasted behind the entire long straights.
    ),

    However in my Trackday sessions i noticed that they do indeed overtake you quite smartly from time to time.. it is pretty close to being human-like if you ask me

    I then tried that at Zandvoort because i thought it could be influenced by the track. I noticed a severe inconsistency in their behavior when approaching lower class cars.
    You can see here that the Corvette at the beginning has no problems putting the power down and overtake the Ginetta. However the LMP didnt even try to overtake the Corvette a lap after at the same spot. It did overtake the Ginetta very smartly after the hairpin T4 though, which makes me wonder when the AI attempts an overtake and when they chicken out.



    Also it braked when the Corvette pulled over into the pits, even though it had clear track in front.

    Its weird to see the AI handling traffic superb at some situations and then behave completely unnatural at others.

    I would like to know what kind of data influence the "decision-making" process of the cars? :D
     
    Epistolarius and St3fan like this.
  6. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    I'm not the type to suggest to hire other people but my question is if you'll be able to spend more time to work on AI to fix specific things and improve it in general. A part of the community has been getting a lot of multiplayer updates, VR, and so on, but there haven't been AI updates and improvements for long.
    Do you have a list of things you noted down for AI work in the close future? For example specific fixes on Spa (eau rouge/kemmel straight slow speed in GT cars), Nordschleife (flugplatz hypercars going too fast and hitting the wall instead of taking the corner, see Hypercar Battle special event race) , Black Cat County (cars hitting the right side barrier in the first corner, see Into the Canyon special event race). Then work is needed when AI cars sometimes are too timid overtaking and other times aggressive and hit the player. About cars overtaking slower cars, there are good tips from the recent update raceroom introduced with flags with penalties that work the same for AI and player: "AI will yield when they get a blue flag for example. And they will get the same penalty for overtaking under yellow as the player does." link. In itself a more evolved flag system can be good for Multiplayer racing.
     
  7. yes
     
    seco46, Fat Rich, Topuz and 9 others like this.
  8. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    That's good to hear.
     
  9. St3fan

    St3fan Alien

    I agree with many of your observations. The track day mode in Content Manager is my major offline game mode, and I do enjoy the experience. If I don't drive fast enough the AI usually don't hesitate to overtake me. IMHO AC AI is very well suited for track day simulation.
     
  10. mtz.enjoi

    mtz.enjoi Racer

    @Lord Kunos Stefano, i am just wondering: Since the AIs behavior is based on the same parameters as the human driver, it makes them behave really natural when driving alone, however i feel like they run into other problems because of that. For instance they lift in corners where humans do not, because (i reckon) all the calculated data overwhelms them so they judge the situations wrong.

    At this point i have to ask, wouldnt an AI that fakes the physical dependence and do their laps "artificially" be better in terms of authenticity?
    Thinking about it, to me it doesnt matter if the AI is influenced by the same physics as i am, as long as they still do the same corner speeds and so on (instead of just destroying you in corners and then slow down on the straights so you can catch up, like in other games).

    What do you think of this?
     
  11. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    How do you code the AI to do the same speeds as you though, then the same speeds as the next guys, what if your both very inconsistent? I think the hardest thing is to make AI a bit off pace so to make them run close to the cars potential would probably be easier then running 3 seconds per lap slower at 80% for example. Where do they lose those 3 seconds and where does the person driving 3 seconds off pace lose that time? is it the same as the next guy 3 seconds off pace?

    I think people that far off cars limits will likely miss the odd apex by a bit and just lose time in random spots so how do you make the AI match up to that. Then as the person starts improving how does the AI adjust to that so now how do you make it go from 3 seconds down to 1 second down. I think its very hard to even come up with ways to code this before you even consider the actual code needed to make them do this. I think Stefano is doing his best but its really a big challenge that I dont think any developer has properly come close to solving and I have never raced AI that are very believable compared to racing humans.

    Maybe at the higher level where its more a procession as our last league race at Monza in the 911 GT3 cup, qualifying back a bit I struggled over 32 laps to make too many moves. Mostly as pace was very close but then also the guys ahead were smart enough to defend well and take away the few opportunities. The current AI even if at the same pace will tend to give up positions more if you get alongside they rarely will hang on to the battle especially if they are outside. But a good real driver will make you work hard for every position, if you make the AI at this level however even if possible how would you tone them down.

    For someone less aware in traffic they cant run side by side through every corner at Monza safely so if the AI were to hang on and make you complete the pass most would say they are crazy and impossible to pass. ;) So making AI that is challenging to all at many different levels is nearly an impossible task, credit to the guys trying to do it and it is getting better over time in all games but there will always be limitations.

    I also see the advantage of running with AI vs a regular open server with random people of all skill levels, firstly most people in that server will hit everything around them and many wont even complete a couple of laps. The AI normally run fairly solid lines and will hang in there on a full race, so the racing vs AI is normally a better standard then a regular pub server field.
     
  12. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    Personally I think the fact that AI uses same physics as player is very cool. And probably lot of work to make it happen, that's already done. Work that might go to waste if AI is now changed into "gamey" AI. People often make the mistake of comparing AC to other games, where AI uses cheat physics, which is probably easier to make to be "enjoyable" but IMO it's part of enjoyment too that AI doesn't cheat (other than some stability control)
     
    Minolin and Andrew_WOT like this.
  13. Mike1304

    Mike1304 Alien

    Yes, but if you want to see a young child driving a bicycle you mount small support wheels on the bike. Or would you prefer to call this child a "cheater" and watch it struggle and fall/crash?

    For me the AI opponents are children compared to human adults when it comes to simulate real human behaviour. That's not Stefano fault; no one can program a lifelike AI (yet)!

    So I could live with a bit of "cheating" if the result is a more authentic and enjoyable AI racing experience...
    Let's call it a "handicap-system" like in golf-sport, which also has the aim to let different skilled players meet on an equal footing.
     
    mtz.enjoi likes this.
  14. Why all unhappy people here still race agains robots instead of this:
     
  15. Linus27

    Linus27 Simracer

    Its a good point. I've been racing sim's since 1980, starting out on Revs on the BBC B and working all thought the ZX Spectrums, Atari's, Commodores, consoles and then on to PC's. Thinking back, the titles that for me have had good to great AI were/are Grand Prix Legends, Microprose Grand Prix 4, GTR2, GT Legends and currently RFactor 2. Grand Prix Legends had some huge flaws with it though but overall, it was still very good. Microprose GP4 was amazing at the time (not sure what its like these days compared to modern titles) and had AI that would defend, overtake, pit, crash and everything that made it challenging and believable. GTR2 and GT Legends again was very good and gave a good challenge. I think the current leader though is RFactor 2. When the title was first released the AI were terrible but it has steadily improved and is now very very good and does have a very realistic behavior, defending, crashing, spinning, running wide, overtaking, undertaking, going off line etc.

    There is no doubt that AC has made huge improvements in the AI, especially in the last year or so. It is clearly getting there and does offer a very good single player experience. Still a little way to go in certain areas as you are probably aware of but keep up the great work. It is very much appreciated by us single player drivers. Thank you :)
     
  16. but those count as 1 because it's basically the same code.
     
    Eero, Mike1304 and Tim Claessens like this.
  17. leon_90

    leon_90 Hardcore Simmer

    In theory yes (even though rFactor2 has indeed a different, let's say updated, code), but in reality it works a bit different than that.

    However, to me the best AI for offline use is still GPL's one, even after almost 20 years.
    Every driver has it's specific pattern and behaviour. They are all different. They get mechanical failures based both on their driving technique and car specifics, while modern sims do not reproduce mechanical failures for AI at all and if they do, they are random generic failures. For example, in GPL Lotus are prone to suspension problems, while Eagle and BRM to the engine and Ferrari to the gearbox.
    They also limp back to the pits (!).
    When they need to overtake, but they are just sligthly faster than you, they wait for a couple of laps. They study your driving, understand where, in what point of the track you are slower, and then they start trying to attack there consistently (confirmed by Papy staff).
    They get better or worst based on their morale from race to race if you do run a championship (there is a specific line in the code for that). Their morale changes also from quali to race (again, there's a specific line for that too).
    They have different reactions every time you start again the same race (not advised though for fun purposes), it's not the same code applied in the same way every time, giving you always the same race. It is truly dinamic.
    They react to flags (slow down with yellows and white flags), they let you overtake when under blue flag.
    And of all this is moddable for use with new cars (CanAm, GT, F2, etc), just open the driver.ini and gplai.ini files to see for yourself.

    That is why, after 16 years of use, GPL is still my way to go sim for offline championships.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
    Fat Rich and cerebralvortex like this.
  18. Linus27

    Linus27 Simracer

    Yes, this is very true.
     
  19. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    I see your point, but AI isn't imo comparable to child. More like robot that is quite good in it's intended task, but clearly robotic. It doesn't need a rebuild, just some tweaks. More aggression to overtake, a bit more speed. In fact I think it was great in 1.7, fast as hell and not afraid to attack and pass me. Don't know what happened to it. Or did some huge placebo effect hit my head??? :confused: Because since 1.8 to this day I've felt they became slower and unwilling to overtake
     
  20. mtz.enjoi

    mtz.enjoi Racer

    i cant say i witnessed the same AI behavior as you did.. so maybe it was indeed placebo? :D
    and my original point about a AI faking physics, instead of coping with the actual ones, was that now the AI has to calculate a lot of things to adjust their driving accordingly. This makes things "overly complicated" (im just guessing here) and maybe limit the potential of believable AI behavior.
     
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
Physics modding - Cars & Tyres Engine and Powertrain talks Dec 20, 2023
ACC PS4/PS5/XB1/XBX/S General Discussions PlayStation 5 VR2 (PSVR2) Virtual Reality - Small talk, tech, pros & cons, your opinion, wishes? Nov 17, 2022
ACC Hardware Discussions Giving back for ACC 1.8: Let's talk about multi-class, multi-hour, full grid simulation? Dec 10, 2021
ACC Physics Let's talk about spins... Apr 2, 2021
ACC General Discussions A Really Honest Talk About ACC Pricing in Brazil [505 - REPORTED TO PUBLISHER] Jul 23, 2020
ACC PS4/PS5/XB1/XBX/S General Discussions Let's talk multiplayer/online servers Jul 11, 2020
ACC Virtual Reality AC not talking to Oculus Rift S May 10, 2020
ACC Graphics - Tracks and Cars Let’s talk about netcode and/or physics in Broadcast Events Mar 30, 2020
ACC General Discussions ACC 1.3.3 talk Feb 13, 2020
ACC General Discussions talking about dommage. Feb 1, 2020
ACC Physics Can we talk about gravel? Oct 1, 2019
ACC Audio Audio not initializing and spotter not talking May 4, 2019
ACC Audio Ambient noise voices (in pit Not speakers talking) Jan 20, 2019
ACC General Discussions Is that your voice Panky talking to us in the car? Jan 18, 2019
ACC General Discussions Let's talk about broadcasting (user's thread) Dec 12, 2018

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice