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Need help on the Porsche 718 Boxster S w/ PDK

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Bob Peirce, May 1, 2018.

  1. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    After much newbie work I've finally got the car behaving pretty much the same as my real car on track with one critical exception. My car has terminal understeer and the sim has terminal oversteer. By that I mean if I overcook a particular turn I know well my car will slip off the track to the outside of the turn while the sim will spin. Either way I know I've screwed up but the correction is different. Actually, I have yet to learn how to control a spin. Maybe I'm just not quick enough.

    This being a street car, suspension adjustments are minimal, so if you are familiar with this car, what might I do to tame or eliminate this?
     

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  3. BrunUK

    BrunUK Alien

    FFS, stop starting new topics for every single question.
     
    Poguinhas and LeDude83 like this.
  4. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    What does FFS mean? Also, if it is a new question, why not a new topic? I had a specific issue here that didn't seem to fit any discussion anybody else had started so I started a new one.

    Maybe it is a personal foible of mine but I really hate it when a discussion starts to digress too far from the original subject. As I was researching something a while back I discovered a thread in another forum that had been going on for several years where the current discussion had absolutely nothing to do with the original subject. I was just lucky to find that the current discussion addressed an issue in which I was interested. The subject sure didn't tell me.

    Be that as it may I was talking to a driver I know and he suggested increasing tire pressures in the rear relative to the front saying, in actual cars, a couple of pounds can make a surprising difference. I'm playing with that idea. Results so far are positive but I need to experiment more. Since tire pressure seems to be the only thing you can modify on this car this seems like a worthy idea to pursue. Any suggestions on appropriate pressure differences?
     
  5. Nmoleiro

    Nmoleiro Gamer

    FFS means for f***ckink sake, sorry about that. Lol.

    While I can't help you directly with the issue, i may suggest you to search for aris videos in YouTube, it's a series on how to set up the car and be a bit faster and more consistent. One of the very first things you need to learn is to setup tire pressure. And he explains it pretty good!!
     
  6. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    You gotta make the rear stick to the road harder than the front in that very situation. This will usually mean to use more negative camber in the rear than in the front.

    If you suffer from a too loose rear end you also might want to tweak rear toe towards toe-in.

    But the reason your RL car behaves differently from the sim car is the same as in all of your numerous threads: it's an entirely different car that has a different engine, much different suspension and minimum Porsche stability management still active while in AC it's all off - no safety nets.
     
  7. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    I couldn't find this. The closest I could get was a poster who calls himself "Avoiding the Puddle" but I couldn't find anything on cars. However, I think I know which direction to go so I will have to experiment.
     
  8. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    Actually, the cars are now quite close. The key has been matching the alignment, getting the right ambient temp and correct track type, although I'm still trying to decide between old and slow. I also run with factory TC and ABS. In the end the 718 is pretty similar but it does have a little more power. OTOH, it doesn't have Sports+, which is worth something. They can never be identical but they can be pretty close, close enough.

    Lap times are very close, which is what I am after. I can get better lap times by using an optimum track and different alignment settings and so on, but that misses my goal of trying to simulate an actual track experience. Perhaps I'm a little different in that respect. I'm not really interested in driving cars I will never own on tracks I will never use. I'm trying to learn stuff that will help me when I take my car to my home track.

    The final step seems to be tire pressures. My car uses the same pressure all around and is extremely stable. The 718 uses 1# more in the rear and is very unstable, sometimes having trouble braking in a straight line. I now know the last key is more front to rear pressure differential. I need to figure how much. I can and am experimenting with this but I was hoping someone may already have figured it out.

    Presently, I am using the "tire pressure engineer" recommended rear pressure and, if you can believe this, 4# less in the front! The car is now extremely stable except, if I force an error by lifting in a turn or something like that, it will still spin rather than slide off the outside of the track. My conclusion is I am moving in the right direction but I have to go further, or at least see what happens if I do.
     
  9. Nmoleiro

    Nmoleiro Gamer



    Here you have the first video of the series, i think...

    Best regards
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  10. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    Thanks. I figured out how to subscribe so I can explore when I have more time.
     
  11. The GT4 in-game at full soft would be closer to your real car tbh...
     
  12. Andy-R

    Andy-R Alien

    The track you are using in game has a really low quality physical mesh from what I experienced when I tried it and posted in one of your other threads. Tight corners were like driving on a staircase.

    97-99% grip I think is considered similar to RL race track grip with regular use.

    You are using a faster car and probably lower grip than real life to replicate your lap times which is probably why you are getting oversteer.

    A modern, medium power MR car with semislicks and TC probably shouldn't have much issue putting power down.

    Even if it was the same car and track quality/grip was right you would likely be faster ingame than IRL I imagine? Trying to replicate your real life lap times isn't the best idea IMO. Maybe just use it for trying different lines and stuff.
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  13. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Yes. I don't see the point in tricking yourself into believing the sim has your car and your track when it simply doesn't. OP seeks training to become quicker IRL and the better approach to this would be to drive the 918 in AC like it should be driven and try to take the learning to his track while keeping in mind that his RL car is a bit different.
     
    Robin_NL and Andy-R like this.
  14. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    My experience against GT4s on the track is they are a bit faster everywhere, depending of course on driver talent. They have more grip, probably because of the Cup 2 tires and about 50 more HP.

    The 718 really is about as close as I can get. It has a tiny bit more power and defaults to a more aggressive alignment, which I backed off to match mine. I have track pads and Sports+ which ought to compensate for any other differences.

    I've got it to the point where any tendency toward oversteer tends to occur at points where the rear gets light, such as turns at the crest of a hill. I know what is going on the and how to handle it.
     
  15. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    Agree on the quality. Mostly the track itself is okay but coming out of the hairpin at the bottom of the hill is extremely weird. I just live with it. The places where I tend to lose rear grip are in turns coming at the crest of a hill, T10 and T14 in particular. That doesn't actually happen so it could be a problem with the mod. Coping with it is good experience. I'm sure a lot of cars would do exactly that.

    I don't know what grip level the real track has or what the equivalents are in AC, if any, but old and slow are pretty close.

    I'm not sure the 718 is that much faster, but it is a bit different. For example, it will get to about 125 approaching the "kink" which I never do, but I can hit 125 down the front straight and the 718 doesn't. Close but not exact. Also, my car has Michelin Pilot Super Sports so I use street tires in the sim along with factory TC and ABS.

    As for your last point, the ONLY reason I got involved with AC in the first place was because of the PIRC mod and my desire to practice out of season with a car/track combination as close to real life as possible. I'm actually getting very close to that and I will be very happy when I do. I've got over 5000 miles at this track but the sim has already helped me to make slight improvements to my approach in specific areas.
     
    paul_wev likes this.
  16. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    That would be true if I didn't already know the track. Since I do, I don't want to learn the subtle nuances of a car I don't actually drive. There are limitations. I mentioned T10 & T14 in a previous post. I'm coming to believe that is a weakness in the track mod, not in my setup. So, you are right that it can never be exact but it can be close enough. I just have to remember where the sim is different when I go to the track. Right now that is limited to two turns where the rear tends to get light in the sim but not at the track.

    On the subject of lap times, which I failed to address in a previous post, the sim is definitely a bit quicker, probably because I can't kill myself. However, we're only talking a couple of percent and the difference becomes pretty much irrelevant at any given point.
     
    paul_wev likes this.
  17. Robin_NL

    Robin_NL Alien

    718 has way more torque down low/midrange than your rl NA Porker ... So in AC this is your oversteerproblem it seems?

    What I heard friends with Cayman S/R vs new 718 testdrive: Irl 718 is way more powerful midrange. Understatement!

    But the enginesound.....

    So for me: Apples to oranges.

    Cheers
    Robin
     
  18. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    Wonderful! I never considered that. I've been driving it like my R and it is close but it isn't exactly the same.

    I did a little experimenting and this may not really be the answer but it is close enough. Backing off a bit on the over the hill turns solves that problem. Nailing it between two close turns results in a PDK upshift I don't actually experience in my car.

    Thanks. This should really help. I'm at the track this weekend but I have time for an AC test session this morning.
     
  19. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    I'm a bit surprised someone needs to give you a heads-up on the differences between your car and the 718 :confused: It's a completely different animal - especially with torque delivery.

    It might help you to read some reviews on both the cars to understand the differences a bit better.
     
  20. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    I know that. It just didn't register. Everything else is so similar. Feathering the throttle a bit on over the hill turns does wonders. The car now feels almost identical and produces very similar lap times.
     
  21. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    I don't mean to be a dick but did you check your laptimes on RSR? The goal for you shouldn't be to match your RL laptimes but to be fast, right?

    I really mean no offense ;)
     

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