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Generic Setup: tyre pressures vs temperature and compound selection.

Discussion in 'Console Lounge' started by HecticZA, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. HecticZA

    HecticZA Racer

    I recently mentioned that I'm slow as hell and an YouTube video on Basics on how to be fast in AC was suggested.

    I've seen the video before, but watched it again and saw something that I missed the previous time.

    Usually if the tyre temperature is too hot or cold, I increase or decrease temperatures till it is in the green zone for me. This often leaves me with 4 different tempretures.

    In the video though, the guy reduced the left hand side and increased right-side psi in order to get all 4 tyres running on the same psi. His explanation was that the car will be balanced then and it made sense.

    I also read on this forum that the ideal psi is 26.
    Can't recall if it is a general "rule" or if in fact factually correct.

    I'm currently in a championship where I'm using the Porsche GT3 R 2016 car on Mugello and most of the other GT3 3 cars are on track in the race.

    Tyre wear rate is set to 180%.

    I tried the psi balance, but then I have to set the pressures high to try and keep the tyres in the green when using Soft slicks.

    Same with Medium. I'm struggling to balance the Psi and keep the tyres warm.

    Hards almost feel better, but once again struggling to get heat in the front, especially front right.

    Is the 26PSi factually correct as the ideal Psi?
    Is it better to balance Psi even if ideal temperatures cannot be reached or maintained?
    Is it acceptable to adjust tyre Temps to obtain ideal heat range, even if unbalanced ito Psi?

    What stage is it better to move to a harder compound?

    I'm in the 1:52/53 range with a best of 1:51.1.
    The rest of the guys seem to be doing 1:47 - 1:49 in the various cars, including the same Porsche.

    I'm not blaming the tyres for my lack of speed, just trying to improve and also understand.


    Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
     
    Hugo Catarino and paul_wev like this.

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  3. Donnced2

    Donnced2 Alien

    Tyre wear on online is bugged until next update and and the wear internal on the server is fixed at 100% for your information...

    About heating...

    This is from the devs.

    Road Legal Tyres

    Street and semi slicks are road legal compounds, used on the road. They wear out slightly. Their main problem is overheating, but after you have overheat them you can wait and start again, they can give similar grip even after lots of km’s. In the end they will wear and lose grip totally.

    Street Tyres

    Optimum temp: 75°C – 85°C but “easy” under and over those temps. Very easy to overheat after some laps on a circuit, especially on fast corners.

    Semi Slicks

    75°C – 100°C but a bit less grip under that and overheat quite faster over that. They have more grip of course and can resist more fast laps, but do not like much abuse and drifting. They wear gradually and lose grip km after km.

    GT2 Slicks

    The main difference of the GT2 cars is that manufacturers are actively developing tyres during the season and bring different compounds on the various tracks. We cannot of course simulate specific compounds for specific tracks, but we offer 5 different compounds:

    • SuperSoft: 90-105°C Don’t like to be driven under or over that range. They wear out very fast

    • Soft: 90-105°C as supersofts. they wear out fast

    • Medium: 85°C-105°C as supersofts over their range. They wear out in a linear gradual way

    • Hard: 80-100°C a tiny bit easier than supersoft outside their range but nothing too radical. They wear just a tiny bit after the initial laps and then stay quite stable for a long time until they start to lose lot’s of grip

    • SuperHard: 80-100°C as hards. They wear a tiny bit and stay stable for lot’s of laps until they let go.
    GT3 Slicks

    The biggest difference between GT2 and GT3 cars are their tyres. GT3 tyres are fixed for the whole season and the organization decides what tyres the car have to use. We provide 3 compounds that are not equivalent to their GT2 counterparts (worse):

    • Softs: 80-110°C . Wear VERY fast. We’ve been told that they were actually used only for a couple of times in qualifying.

    • Mediums: 75-105°C Wear linearly and predictably. all around tyre

    • Hard: 70-100°C Wear a tiny bit after a couple of laps and stay stable for a long sting. Not great grip but they are predictable and can be used in a wide variety of tracks and temperatures. Often “forced” by regulations on cars.
    Hypercars Slicks

    (Zonda R and 599XX) are a bit worse parents of the GT3 tires. Let’s say a generation behind. Rest of their characteristics is very similar to the GT3 tires.

    Vintage F1 67 Tyres

    We provide just one compound for such tyres, although we learned there were actually different compounds. As a matter of fact, there is documentation reporting that Jim Clark choose the tyre that permit him to slide more for the race at Monza. Unfortunately there is not enough documentation for the compounds so for now we stick with just one compound. If anybody has more info regarding the matter, I’d be happy to discuss with it. Optimum range 50-90°C. The tyres are good at low temps, and can withstand overheating pretty well. The tyre wear is gradual, you can expect to do a full race without problems, except if you overdrive and overheat them too much.

    The tire ranges are not perfect ranges but a min max range that you might not be able to understand a difference in tire grip. Temperatures are also vary quite widely from straight to inside a turn, so optimally you need a tire that stays at the lower end of the optimum temperature just before the braking zone and at the higher end of the optimum temperature at the exit of the turn. Not so easy to obtain.

    In AC going outside the optimum range, doesn’t mean the car will become undriveable. This characteristic is a double sword. You might think the car is good, but you’re not driving on the optimum grip, so you’ll lose time without understanding it. There’s depth to be found and explored within the AC tire model.

    Another hint for tyre temperatures, as in real life, use more camber to heat faster a part of the tyre tread and then this dissipate to the rest of the tyre. More camber, more heat, less camber, less heat.
     
    HecticZA, paul_wev and Luisandro like this.
  4. Jon Legg

    Jon Legg Racer

    There is a massive problem if you change tyres during a race. If you need different pressures for different compounds, you can only set one value at the start of the race. There needs to be an option to set tyre pressure for each compound.
     
    M Waechter and Daz730 like this.
  5. Graveltrap

    Graveltrap Alien

    No idea where I found this or who made it, but it shows the effect of temperature and tyre performance.

    I think it is for the GT3 R and not the cup as the title indicates.

    IMG_7436.PNG

    Hopefully it is legible as it's uploaded to the forum :eek:

    It does seem that pressure is more important than temperature, 26 psi is a great starting point, but do experiment around that area to find what works for you, and gives the balance you desire.
     
    ESC tonin, Donnced2, HecticZA and 2 others like this.
  6. Peter Dee

    Peter Dee Gamer

    From what I understand, adjust the psi to get the heat in after 3 or 4 laps then adjust the psi to balance the car. If 26 is too much, drop it. I often run around 20psi or less depending on track temp.

    If your tyres are wearing too much or you're cooking them, then harder compound might be the answer; conversely if you're not getting any heat into them, go softer.
     
    HecticZA likes this.
  7. Dave53

    Dave53 Racer

    I'm in the same boat. I can't seem to get the tyres to remain in the correct heat range. They are almost always on the cold side.

    So should I be going to a softer compound, or dropping pressure, or both?
     
  8. MasterGT

    MasterGT Gamer

    After looking at the three tiny numbers above the tire heat/ wear diagram, I settled on using tire pressures to only get tire temps close to one another - side to side and front to back. Some cars can't do that. The front tires will be cold vs the rears and the track layout and driver skills will govern how the inside or outside temps change. Tire pressure doesn't seem to change the profile of the tires. High pressures should make the centre temperature higher than the edges; softer tires should make the edges hotter than the centre. That did not happen in my limited testing. I would like to be proved wrong, here, because this could be useful. Camber should have effects on the edge temps, but I didn't look at that. So, to sum up, I use tire pressures to range the tire's running temp and that's it. I change compounds for longevity and the overall running temps, of course. It's a compromise and there are limitations.

    Last night, I came up against a tire oddity. We were using one car and it had few adjustments and we were similarly set up. My tires exhibited quite a lot of squealing and understeer in the curves and my car was noticeably slower than the rest. It was the runt of the littler, it seemed. If you experienced a one-off, you may have experienced a similar anomaly. If you experience your problem each time, then it may not be related to what I just experienced.
     
    chemako85, Dave53 and HecticZA like this.
  9. Dave53

    Dave53 Racer

    Great response.

    Do you end dropping the pressures until you can achieve a reliably appropriate temperature (when the car is driven at race speeds)?
     
  10. MasterGT

    MasterGT Gamer

    I raise or lower the pressures within the limits for each car. There have been a few cars that I have raised them up quite a bit, depending on the compound or track. Sometimes the fronts are lowered to the minimum. Since I am only looking for temperature balance, it's no-holds barred, as far as I am concerned.
     
    Dave53 likes this.
  11. M Waechter

    M Waechter Racer

    I once pointed this 'problem' out as well. But hasn't this changed later on with the officially AC pit stop app + presets ?
     
  12. Jon Legg

    Jon Legg Racer

    Dude, I think you’re lost! this is the console section of the forum. There are no apps or mods available on console.
     
  13. chemako85

    chemako85 Rookie


    Yes, I agree with you: adjust the camber don't seem to change to much the tyre temperature. Adjust the pressur do not have effects to the tyre profile too!! I think the car setup in AC don't work perfectly or, IMO, don't seem real....
     
  14. M Waechter

    M Waechter Racer

    The Pit Stop Strategy app I spoke about is a default Kunos app or 'feature' listed in the last tap of any SetUp Screen.. (so, could easily be in the console release as well !?). No community app.
    But yep, I missed out that this thread is located and about in the comsole forum. Sry.
     
    paul_wev likes this.

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