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Steering input AC & real life

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Andy-R, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    I’m oversimplifying it of course but the point is the car needs to be settled and smooth through corners, remember that fast and smooth are not mutually exclusive. Something like formula cars and Senna especially is not the best example as everything happens at hyper speed already and for the car to be smooth the driver is doing things very quickly which doesn’t look smooth, but it is.

    If a driver is taking two stabs at the wheel turning in to a corner then he has turned to early or too late.
     
  2. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    I don't think it was explained, but perhaps we got close.

    I think those micro stability things are caused by lots of little very dynamic rapid changes: tires flexing and bouncing like springs vertically and laterally (influencing geometry and car response), chassis flexing (also a spring), liquids sloshing (constant tiny changes in CoG, which then influences everything else), also as you have guessed that it might also happen due to grip levels constantly changing a bit. I don't know what is simulated and what is not, and how well, just can guess. All probably goes down to slip angles.

    Except tire flex... maybe. Not instantly.... maybe. Because, if I understand it correctly, when tire is flexing, then rim and hub can rotate/travel in greater amount than tire at the patch is twisting. A bit like a wheel on the gravel wouldn't start turning immediately before it digs in, just one stage up - now for a moment rim is a wheel and tire is like gravel, just elastic. And there is front and rear tire, and they would likely wont flex synchronic... And probably rim with the hub will have to match up back with the tire, rather than vice versa ? Could be a good explanation for some sawing type quick steer corrections.

    P.s I have bold some words, to make it more clear how certain I am :D
     
  3. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    Well thats just for one curve, and steering inputs were not included into this telemetry example unfortunately, but I am pretty sure Senna had to do more steering corrections than the slower driver.

    This goes better, look at 4:00



    Thats just one reason why driver could have to adjust his steering input. There are also many other reasons why would twitch and keep changing its direction slightly as it travels through the curve on the limit, many reasons for it to happen. And I think it probably gets harder to prevent that as speeds gets greater.
     
  4. hristo1026

    hristo1026 Racer

     
    SMOKING__MONKEY3 and mantasisg 2 like this.
  5. Maybe it's more a case of the faster drivers being able to make those super fast micro corrections much closer to the edge of the grip envelope than others? I know for a fact that I am not all that confident on the very edge with certain cars, so I probably do not push the car quite as close to the edge as faster drivers (in other words, I play it safe...and the end result is my legendary super smooth driving) :p I am guessing that the closer you are to the edge, the more micro corrections you will need to make to keep the car under control.....hence the (probably false) impression that the lap is not quite as smooth as you might expect.....

    Well, that's my theory anyway :)
     
    baronesbc, hristo1026 and LeDude83 like this.
  6. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    What I’m saying is the aim is to be as smooth as possible, being perfectly smooth is an imposibility as you would be reacting to suspension, kurbs, potholes, all sorts of things. At the end different people still have different driving styles, some like a more nervous car and therefore will be makin more corrections over a lap in reaction to what the chassis is doing, others want a more stable car so would make it softer and more forgiving over bumps.
     
  7. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    Then can we find examples of those different driving styles/car setups in AC onboard videos ?

    Wow, thats on point, and GT3 turns out not to be that boring sometimes, intense lap. Really fast.
     
    hristo1026 and LeDude83 like this.
  8. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    This is a good thread. It's already got quite good "findings", all with a reasonable "sim vs RL" margin.

    Generalizations at this point, even intended, are not constructive and cause confusion. No offense @Serge M ;-)

    IMO it really is best to stick to specific examples. I think Mantas said that already.
     
    mantasisg 2 likes this.
  9. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    I agree. I currently grind Spa in the MP4-12C GT3 and I'm quite smooth. But the potential increase in grip by fishing might as well be one of the 4 seconds I'm down on the RSR record. Every now and then I find myself doing a half-intuitive, half-clueless saw at the wheel that happens to give me more grip and the perfect trajectory. Very hard to reproduce for me at this point.
     
  10. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    Decent onboard comparison of Kimi vs Bottas, both quiet smooth with their steering, Bottas a bit more so I’d say:

    Both have points they react to external factors but can see there is no random sawing at the wheel going on
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  11. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    I think modern F1 car is just totally different kind of car, steering is very quick and extremely responsive, slip curves are very high and narrow. They might do some tiny corrections anyway, but they are probably just dramatically small and quick.
     
    Tomcul likes this.
  12. hristo1026

    hristo1026 Racer

    And to support your theory,here are two videos:
    Same car and track two different drivers.The first driver is an amateur.



    The second driver is the professional driver Côme Ledogar which is five seconds faster.

     
    mantasisg 2, LeDude83 and baronesbc like this.
  13. liakjim

    liakjim Alien

    I find myself to always micro correct in AC.
    Best example is the Cobra were I do so many corrections , that I get totally sweaty.

    Example


    Στάλθηκε από το m2 note μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  14. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Good vids with fairly smooth steering. But Mantas set the perspective right.

    In my own words:

    - Very quick steering and responsive suspension so a tiny flick is like a 90 degree sustained rotation in a classic touring car. Those flicks are there, occasionally.
    - At F1 speeds/power/aero (very yaw sensitive I guess) maybe extensive fishing isn't worth it in a risk/benefit consideration.
     
    mantasisg 2 likes this.
  15. Andy-R

    Andy-R Alien

    Yeah the Cobra is definitely one of those cars that requires a lot of steering input. Especially after they altered the tyre wall or whatever wizardry made it prone to wander after that update.
     
    mantasisg 2 likes this.
  16. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    Different cars would require different teqnique I’d say. Would have though you would want to keep steering movement to a minimum and nothing too sudden in older cars to avoid shifting weight too much or too suddenly side to side, don’t drive too many older toys though
     
  17. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    Yeah, it is not that it is entirely missing in AC, but it is still smoother than I would find believable. 330P4 and Cobra are a few of those cars which has really fine physics. Though all cars in AC are somewhat equal in their quality, but some has more passion in them, IDK if that is because they just are more passionate, or Aris like them more, or Lord Kunos had such cars in mind in the first place when designing physics engine :D

    Epic example ! The first one FFB wheel will last more than 8 years, and the second will last less than 4, but he will have more fun :D
     
    hristo1026 likes this.
  18. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    Here’s another good one shamelessly stollen from another thread in the ACC section :)



    I always thought that the whole “hunting for grip” thing is more a rally/lose surface driving thing
     
  19. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    Of course it is, tarmac is all about rails.
     
  20. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    That looks a lot like my steering inputs in a GT car in AC.
     
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