PS4 Very important! Console version:

Discussion in 'Console Lounge' started by Ayrton Senna da Silva, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. A few major shortcomings

    - Custom button maping
    - Seat distance adjustment for cockpit camera
    - Downshift limiter bug (All vehicles have a downshift problem. Engine braking is not possible)
    fstarred and TNTNitro like this.

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  3. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    2. Are supposed to come in the next patch
    3. I dont think its a bug. Its downshift protection. Or are you talking about h-pattern cars?
  4. All been reported before some old and some not so old are you saying there still no change?;)
  5. Jon Legg

    Jon Legg Racer

    Engine braking is possible, and it's possible to wreck the engine in with a careless down shift on some cars, classic F1's especially.
  6. But in real life;

    Race cars do not have gearshift protection

    My friend is a GT3 pilot
    Donald_Trump2016 likes this.
  7. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    Real drivers aren't going to downshift at such high RPM's that they would even notice if its there. If there was no shift protection in these cars they would regularly retire from races due to destroyed gearboxes and engines. I'm not saying the Kunos system is perfect but not many semi auto modern cars will allow a downshift that causes terminal damage to engine or gearbox.

    Most people in games and sims are far more careless when it comes to mechanical sympathy, excessive engine braking that would break most engines is the most common thing you see in games that you would never see by a real pro driver do in a real car.

    There are even some cars that have a semi auto pre selectable downshift, older f1 cars had this where you would just slam the shifts down as fast as you could but then the car only does the shifts at ideal rpm. Most times you wouldn't even notice the delay, I don't think gt3 cars have this but its possible some modern supercars do have such a transmission, most race classes would ban this these days as its a massive driver aid and pretty much a perfect manual transmission. The f1 cars in that era I think early 2000's with ABS, TC, launch control, semi auto transmission with the car doing most of the actual work for the driver.
    bradleyland, clos2727 and Jon Legg like this.
  8. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    F1 banned ABS in the early 90's, but I agree, all the electronic helps in the 2000's were bad for racing. Glad TC and LC were banned.
    Anybody else noticed how Massa has struggled ever since the TC ban? ;)
  9. Jon Legg

    Jon Legg Racer

    Let the revs drop between down shifts, that's when you're actually engine braking.
    As martcerv says in games, like Foza & Gran Tourism, you see people slamming down through multiple gears and hitting the rev limt with no consequence, in reality it would blow the engine and / or cause the rears to lock and spin the car.
  10. ZX636

    ZX636 Hardcore Simmer

    Maybe if someone is playing with all the assists on. Can assure you that I've had a few damaged engines and traction losses due to that, especially when I was learning.

    Anyway, from Stefano (Ignore the log part, for obvious reasons)
    "There are info in the logs about the downshift protection when it kicks in.
    Look for lines starting with:
    "Gear refused"
    It will give you the information of the "projected rpm" after the downshift and what the limit rpm is. The projection is a complex calculation that involves the time to shift down, current rpm but also rate of deceleration of the car.. yes it can be inconsistent in both directions (ie. I had overrevs in cars with protection) especially in bumpy braking zones.
    Perhaps for next major update I will add more debug to the log, including position on the track, speed, current gear and so on so we can start a thread to collect data and see how inconsistent really is and how to improve it.
    DatNoiseV12 and Demetrius 81 like this.
  11. Sohail_16

    Sohail_16 Gamer

    Massa started struggling ever since his accident in the 2009 F1 grand prix...
  12. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    It was even before the accident.
    In wet conditions more than on a dry track, but after the TC ban it was noticeable that other drivers could cope better as Massa could.

    Anyway, it's off topic.
  13. Luke7

    Luke7 Simracer

    Didn't Massa almost win the world championship after the TC ban? Ironically it was Kimi who seemed to struggle.
  14. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    Damn, I thought the ban was one year later with the new aero rules. :(

    I remember Massa though spinning his car multiple times in a wet Silverstone race, don't know if it was 2008 or 2009 then.
  15. Darera

    Darera Gamer

    Downshift problem is a bug and not a protection.
    The problem arises when you are 100% on the brakes. Even at low speed, when neither has any risk of over-speeding
    bradleyland and Donald_Trump2016 like this.
  16. Traks1

    Traks1 Racer

    @Darera Exactly the conclusion I had come to. Currently unofficially doing hot lap challenge with Lotus 98t which shouldn't have any "downshift protection" but will not go down the box reliably. Happens when on the brakes hard but according to replays and onboard sound clues (tyre squeal etc), I am not locked up. Something isn't right.
    Darera and Donald_Trump2016 like this.
  17. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    Yep, if its 98t its definitely a bug
    martcerv likes this.
  18. Jon Legg

    Jon Legg Racer

    Are you using paddle shift?
  19. Darera

    Darera Gamer

    I think so. Driving with H-box and manual clutch, removes the problem. One can only bypass the problem with vehicles, which have an original H-box. For other vehicles, switching to shifter mode can also be a solution, but not always with the same success. For the original vehicles with paddles on the steering wheel, there is no solution. Only adapt by releasing the brake pressure. This implies that the braking is not 100% obtimal. On the other hand, it is a good training to adapt to the declining braking.
    Sorry, for the translation, I do not speak English.
    Donald_Trump2016 likes this.
  20. Traks1

    Traks1 Racer

    @Jon Legg

    Yes I am using paddles and I am considering whether that is a possible cause for the "not getting a gear when I want it" issue too as the original 98t was of course an entirely manual shift and was not even a sequential one let alone the twin clutch "seamless" gear changes that have now become the norm.

    For example, quite often at the end of the long straight at Spa I will get from 6th down to 5 and 4 as snappily as anybody could possibly wish, then there is a short lag and maybe 1 or 2 wasted attempts at a gear change in between until it will let me have 3 to 2 nice and equally as snappily. It's a timing thing I'm sure so maybe not brake related after all although very hard braking seems to exacerbate matters.

    I have a feeling that if I could "time" my gear changes to suit the game perfectly all would be well but I feel I should be able to choose the gear I want when I want it, particularly with this car not having a modern "protection from idiots system" on board. Not getting the gear you want when you want it leads to really bad things happening when trying to press on a bit irl as well as in game.

    Whatever, it is very difficult to find consistency as it works now and it is taking away from some of the fun of "driving" that particular car for me. Nobody wants to drive what irl would be a dangerously inconsistent car and I really am not interested in giving Logitech another £50 for the manual shifter or learning how to tap dance across 50% more pedals.
    Donald_Trump2016 likes this.

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