1. Do you need support for Assetto Corsa Competizione? Please use the proper forum below and ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Logs" folder in your c:\users\*youruser*\AppData\Local\AC2\Saved. The "AppData" folder is hidden by default, check "Hidden items" in your Windows view properties. If you report a crash, ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Crashes" folder in the same directory. Do not post "I have the same issue" in an existing thread with a game crash, always open your own thread. Do not PM developers and staff members for personal troubleshooting and support.
  2. As part of our continuous maintenance and improvements to Assetto Corsa Competizione we will be releasing small updates on a regular basis during the esports season which might not go through the usual announcement process detailing the changes until a later version update where these changes will be listed retrospectively.
  3. If ACC doesn't start with an error or the executable is missing, please add your entire Steam directory to the exceptions in your antivirus software, run a Steam integrity check or reinstall the game altogether. Make sure you add the User/Documents/Assetto Corsa Competizione folder to your antivirus/Defender exceptions and exclude it from any file sharing app (GDrive, OneDrive or Dropbox)! The Corsair iCue software is also known to conflict with Input Device initialization, if the game does not start up and you have such devices, please try disabling the iCue software and try again. [file:unknown] [line: 95] secure crt: invalid error is a sign of antivirus interference, while [Pak chunk signing mismatch on chunk] indicates a corrupted installation that requires game file verification.
  4. When reporting an issue with saved games, please always zip and attach your entire User/Documents/Assetto Corsa Competizione/Savegame folder, along with the logs and the crash folder (when reporting related to a crash).

Talk about Raceroom Racing Experience R3E

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by SpriGgy, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. Skybird

    Skybird Alien

    I recommend to try ut the still relatively new WTCC 2018 cars. And I mean the 2018 edition, not one of the earlier years. The ahdling is VERY diferent, the cars feel very different, and I wonder what sceptical people who tried RR earlier and then enver again think about it. These cars feel like another sim, that difeffent from all other cars in RR they are (FWD). Needless to say: I mention this becasue I think these cars are utmost extreme fun. I have my doubts about the three old packs, and found the 2017 acceptable, but not more. But these new FWD cars have turned me into a beiever. Obviously, oversteer and understeer and feel of rear end mjst eb different than in lets say a GT3 car.

    I would recommend to base any testing of FFB or other things always on their latest cars with the latest Hodgkinson physics. The popular packs like GT3, DTM2018, WTCC2018.
     
  2. Skybird

    Skybird Alien

    In the end it would need real world experience with a given carto judge whether a car in a sim is "realistic" or not. Most palyers do not have that. A sim always just creates illusions. The question is to what degree somebody finds the illusion immersive enough that he does not care anymore for the illusion being an illusion, and simply enjoys it. Its all more subjective than many die-hard simmers are ready to admit. I have the impression that the older players are, the more relaxed their approach to this is, by tendency.
     
  3. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    I like R3E, and agree with much of the above. But the comment that it feels like ACC just doesn't compute for me. In fact, setting aside the which is better debate, I don't think R3E feels like any other sim I've played. It's not bad, it's just different, as most sims are. But if it's similar to something, I definitely wouldn't say it's similar to ACC. The way they feel around TDC alone is vastly different, and R3E lacks road/surface feel, no matter how you set it. It's been a common observation for a very long time. Pretty sure even the devs acknowledged that. Again, that's not to take anything away from it. I enjoy R3E very much.
     
    Dean Ogurek likes this.
  4. sherpa25

    sherpa25 Hardcore Simmer

    They release DTM2018?
     
  5. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Yeah, yeah...it's your opinion and that's fine - I'm not gonna comment on that.

    But your post isn't relevant to the one you quoted - I was talking about Placebo effect and not at all about FFB being realistic or not. Gopher had previously stated that if someone likes FFB of sim 1 better than FFB of sim 2, that would be "make believe" and "placebo". I disagreed with that. Your post has nothing to do with that.
     
    Jebus likes this.
  6. BrandonW77

    BrandonW77 Alien

    I haven't played ACC a whole lot yet but it did remind me quite a bit of R3E. Maybe not so much the FFB, but cars in R3E feel massive and heavy, they have some real mass to them that I like. I feel that in ACC too, the cars have real mass to them and I can really feel where all four corners are, I can really feel the weight moving around, R3E is the only other game that has given me that feeling and I like it.
     
  7. plaid

    plaid Alien

    It also really varies how much tolerance people have for something feeling inferior - whenever its subjective or objective - , you may not have the intention to only play what feels best, but it sometimes hard to enjoy something good, simply cause you can't overcome something slightly better.

    No matter how good the rest is, the absense of what you mention makes it hard for me to enjoy driving. Thats probably also why in games I enjoy streetcars or racecars closer to them more than gt or Formulas, at least on rather unexciting circuit (compared to the NS, LL, Tajo etc.) besides the low speed conception.

    Anyway pointless to lose energy with arguing about all that after a certain point, there are various examples where noone changed their opinions after a great battle. See PC2 thread here or various on "neutral" places like RD.
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  8. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    I think a lot of people mistakenly assume that all people have the same sensory perception. Terms like inferior and superior are mostly subjective when it comes to senses and FFB is realize through tactile sense. Just like some people have difficulty distinguishing shades of green from brown, some people feel more or less of certain things in the FFB dynamic, depending on how they are rendered. That's part of the reason two people, running the same hardware, ,can share FFB settings, but report different results.

    I like R3E a lot, and there may be similarities between R3E and ACC in terms of the car's "mass" feel, but where they differ to me is the feeling around TDC and surface texture. For me, TDC feels better in ACC and track surface doesn't feel as sterile.
     
    Dean Ogurek likes this.
  9. Skybird

    Skybird Alien

    Typo of mine, sorry. DTM 2016. The latest one. There are DTM packs for 1992, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 ( and so far 3 individual DTM Mercedes from 1995, 2003 and 2005, two more coming). Only DTM 2016 is on latest physics standards, I think, and Mercedes from the DTM 95, 03 and 05). DTM 1992, DTM 13, 14, 15 not updated so far.
     
  10. Skybird

    Skybird Alien

    All in all, ACC should nbe expected to be kind of "better" or "superior". Its several years newer, and if that would not give it the edge over a sim that started develoment in I think 2010 or 2011, then Kunos would have done it wrong. Anyone thinking they have? Me not. In details, other titles may pick some grains from it, but in general I expect ACC to rule in details and overall quality. That is no criticising of Raceroom. RR simply is many years older in design decisions and available technologies.
     
    Carla and Tim Meuris like this.
  11. Skybird

    Skybird Alien

    Since it gets asked frequently, a new post/list with cars using the latest of three different physics standards. Thanks to ChatCureuil at S3 forums. It seems I fell victim to one or two misbeliefs myself. I thought DTM2016 was of latest physics.

    * GTR3 (ADAC GT Masters are the same cars as GTR3)
    * Formula Junior FRJ
    * GTR1
    * WTCR 2018
    * C-KLASSE 1995, 2003, 2005
    * Porsche 911 GT3 Cup
    * Porsche Cayman Clubsport
    * Pagani Zonda R

    There are now 137 different cars with 1173 different liveries.

    DTM92, German Nationals, GT2, Hillclimb Classics, Touring Classics , WTCC 2013+14 are still on the oldest physics standard. All other cars are of the second-last standard: updated over the old ones, still not of the latestbstandard.
     
    Dean Ogurek likes this.
  12. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    I don't expect or look for any new sim to "rule" over anything or be better than anything. I just want it to be a good solid experience and for all the features to be well integrated. Having weather transitions is great, but if the AI isn't affected by puddles and standing water, it's only a half-baked implementation. I agree that I would expect ACC to improve on AC. But that's all I expect from them.
     
  13. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    I tried them both back to back last night and made a few tweaks to my R3E settings on the wheel base side. I was wrong. I see what you mean. They're not the same by any means, but I do feel a lot more of the similarities.
     
  14. Carla

    Carla Rookie

    There is nothing special about R3E to justify it's pricing vs comparable offerings. This is why I talk very little about the game. The work Alex has been doing lately should have been addressed a long time ago. (lots of cars still to go) I would be happy it's being worked on for the players of the title though, but I still don't understand why the game is priced the way it is. It has the least convincing physics (yes, personal opinion) and while they have declared to have been working steadily on the title while releasing constant cars and tracks, it still has the least amount of features. (it took over 4 years to implement triple screen support?)

    No, I'm not a race car driver, but I do know what happens when you take high HP and RWD to the limits. I'm also familiar with newer performance cars with traction and stability control systems. For me, the ACC GT3 cars feel the most convincing so far. I don't see how R3E can obtain the same results with what they are dealing with, but I'll be among the folks who come back to check it out if the majority comes out and says it has accomplished it one day. I was a little impressed with AMS and was told it used the same engine as R3E, so the potential for improvement is definitely there. Hopefully for the fans of R3E, Alex will get the game closer to that mark. Yet, even if he does, wtf is with the pricing!? And no thanks, I don't want to buy a couple of cars or packs...I want the whole game. Certainly not for $120 bucks. (Canada) when I purchased AMS w/season pass for $30. And yes, after all the VRP and currency conversions and Paypal or credit card fees, it comes to just over $120.00 as it stands right now. No thanks.

    *To be fair, I've heard from guys whom I know have driven and like and have all sims, that the WTCC cars are fun to drive in R3E
     
    Tim Meuris likes this.
  15. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    No one has to buy all of the R3E content. Outside of tracks, not even sure why anyone would want to buy all the cars.

    That being said... I also think all the talk about high pricing hurts our genre greatly. That price model evolved around video games, and sims are not video games in true sense, but all too often people want them to be priced that way. Anything over $60 sets people to complaining. If you're developing a sim-cade style title, then yes, you need the more people from the casual audience to make sales work and that means keeping it around $60 or under. But here's the thing, most sim racers, at least on the PC side, are at least $2K in on their setups if they're using wheels on PC. Between PC, Wheel, Pedals, Rig, etc., even the post savvy shopper is upwards of $1.5K. So why the $60 threshold when it comes to the titles that power the setups? If there was sim that had at least AC level graphics (I pick that one because it's basically the mid point right now as far as visuals), and a rich feature set that was fully integrated with AI and weather, rules, transitions, licensed content, ranked multi-play, etc, I'd gladly pay $150 - $200 for the title. Every sim I've purchased for $60 has been basically incomplete in some way, yet I'm still racing in them in years later. So, there's no reason to think I wouldn't get the same, or more, longevity out of a sim that was a complete package.

    But I think all the constant complaining about pricing just discourages other developers from even thinking about a strategy that doesn't fit into the $60 retail range, and that limits what we get in the end. At some point, sim-racers that want a harder sim experience and less sim-cade, need to start letting devs know that they can still make money with quality over quantity, because we're willing to pay more for higher quality sim and deeper feature sets. But if we keep arguing over price from our multi-grand rigs, we'll be limited to whatever they do for a $60 retail promise.

    Seriously, though... how much would you guys be willing to pay for a hard sim with all the modern bells and whistles, full integrated, no half-arsing or skimping about it?
     
  16. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    Good question, I do not even know what that "hard SIM" should look like for me, let alone for you and every body else.
    Let say for the sake of argument, that this elusive "hard SIM" would be a combo of the best features, for me, of what is available today in, unfortunately, different SIMs.
    Efficient so a decent PC, CPU/GPU, can run it and not an eternal science project, as they all are at this point, to a level or another.
    In my case, $200 CND, would not be anything I would fret about. taking into account, I would not have to bother buying any of the actual low level crap, except for the odd DLC, when I am interested in it.
     
  17. Skybird

    Skybird Alien

    The pricing, Carla says.

    Well, the business model is what it is. I do not like it at all, I just tolerate it, because I like too much what the game offers. But there is freedom of choice. Nobody must buy stuff. And nobody gets excluded from a race just because he does not own the cars the others are driving.

    In the end, stuff is worth what somebody is willing to trade/pay/barter for it. If you, Carla, says RR is too expensive in your opinion, then that is absolutely okay and I do not object. Others say it is worth it for them to pay the price RR is asking for, and that is then absolutely okay as well.

    The pricing thus is not really a problem. If it were hurting RR and so threatening ongoing development, I would assume then that they would have reconfigured it by now.

    What I criticise is that their different shops and the microtransaction model and sometimes - at least in the past - different prices in both shops for the same item, makes it easy for newcomers to spend more than they indeed would need to pay for those things they are interested in. This leaves a taste, as we say in German.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
    Carla likes this.
  18. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    Neither do I. I was basically just asking what would you pay for a sim that seemed to tick all your boxes and fully integrate the features you want with high-quality physics and the most commonly desired features by today's standards. By "hard" sim, I just meant, probably PC only and built specifically for wheel users. Like you said, take the best from the current crop and bake it into one title.

    But the sim's checklist wasn't really the point of the question, just how much would you pay. I agree. I'd be willing to pay at least $200 for something like that.
     
    dajdosta likes this.
  19. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    I understand it, but wanted to point out that such SIM might not even be possible to create as we seem to allways want something different. So, yes 200 $ cnd, would be the number, for my “perfect” sim.
     
    Carla likes this.
  20. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    I know. I don't know what the perfect sim looks like, either--doubt there is such a thing, nothing will ever be perfect. I just wish there was a profit model for developers that want to go that extra step, even if it means the end price will exceed the $60 norm.
     
    Cote Dazur likes this.
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