Feedback from real-life drivers - discussion

there's a lot depending on the setup, TC setting and so on...
for me the real huracan - from the onboard videos - looks really loose, i can see lots of corrections on the steering wheel.
in the game, compared to the onboards, it feels much more easy to drive with good pace, to be honest

 

Very simple, there is an evolution of the physics engine. In my personal opinion, the oversteer in AC is too easy for correction while in ACC the oversteer is too hard for correction compared to the real world.

No, I am not a racing driver and I have not driven a racing car.

 

Something something Early Access.....

I read his review last night, saw the 1.1 hours played, laughed and added it to my cart. Just because he drives a real Lambo doesn't mean he is instantly going to click with a SIMULATION of one - I can think of many huge differences between even the very best sim software and real life, it is what it is.

Even the best racing drivers to ever have lived could fire up any piece of sim software no matter how realistic and still hate it.

 

This guy is a slouch, I beat him on a moped driving backwards naked, up the down hill in a snow storm. Why the nerve of this pozer

 

Most of that isn't true feedback. Those drivers are being paid by the marketing departments of those games to lavish praise on what amounts to one of their sponsors (just like drivers do after a race).

So yes, that sort of "feedback" is worthless.

But that's not what happened here. The driver is speaking as a paying customer - not a compensated endorser.

 

Well, that's the problem. According to a pro driver who's actually driven a Huracan in a real race, the ACC version was (is??) much harder to drive than the real thing. I just hope it's being (been??) fixed.

I worry that drivers on the payroll for a dev team would be reluctant to give sufficiently critical feedback. Like you said, we've seen PC2 get endorsed by lots of pro drivers. Maybe they gave more honest feedback behind closed doors to the developer. Maybe not.

I'm to the point where, if the driver is getting paid by the developer, it's hard to take their opinion seriously.

 

This guy over at RD made the point better than I could, so just copied and pasted his comment here:

1.1 hours is more than enough when you're a hardcore sim racer with IRL racing experience.

The guys on this level take no time at all dialing in their gear settings. A lot have just a base logitech or thrustmaster wheel so it's a matter of loading profiler settings and adjusting overall FFB level. 2-3 minutes at best.

Most ignore default setup and throw in their universal/real world values right off the bat. This is the discovery phase where they start learning in what ways the tire/suspension model is borked because they're using this phase as mock installation laps where they're purposely overdriving & finding the edge of grip. Two or three of these laps, then slight adjustments they know off by heart. We're at 12 minutes since booting up the game for the first time.

Then a lengthy hotlap session, more setup tweaks that try to exploit or dial out the shortcomings in the physics model, then either a race against AI, or another hotlap session with a half-assed custom setup that most people would pay for.

At this point we're at 48 minutes. They take a break, go to the forum, converse with a few people, look for others talking about strange physics or potential setup tricks, then head back in with one final shot. By the end of that session, they know pretty much everything about the game. Also, they're lapping in the top 1-2% of all leaderboard times. It has now been 1.1 hours.

One hour is the length of a free practice session for these guys in IMSA and it's more than enough time to get the cars dialed in for Qualifying. Implying they need several times that for a computer car is just silly.

 

That is a bit generic, I would be surprised if many real drivers would know the actual setup the car had, then if this guy drove the car once in 2016 on a completely different track and different tyre compounds. That's saying they would know the exact geometry of their real car, they would know all suspension and damper values even if the numbers in game aren't exactly the same as they may have in the real car? again in a 2016 car on a completely different track and rubber. I think the guy from RD is giving this "pro" far too much credit. A real driver doesn't need to know exact setup numbers, that's the engineers job. They need to be able to translate what they feel and whats being shown in basic telemetry and how they think something may be improved.

Saying any pro driver will be a master sim hardware setup guru is also a bit of a stretch, especially if you combine this with his call saying that most will have Logitech or thrustmaster setup which is mostly starter level sim hardware, indicating not a huge interest in sim racing. So assuming the base setup on these is great or these pro's somehow can dial the hardware in, in seconds on a completely new sim gives them some godlike status. Even hardcore sim racers will take much more time to do this and they have more experience in doing so, driving a real car around a track doesn't mean much in this case. Maybe devs should hire these pros to make all default hardware and car setups, but then if they cant even get around a lap they likely have got it all pretty wrong.

Its not to say you can discredit all poor reviews and there is no reason to do this unless your at blind fanboy level, even devs would gladly hear good feedback with proper data from real world comparisons. But you really need to bring more to the party then this "review" and say your a pro to instantly gain respect from everyone no matter how little effort was provided in the testing and review writing process.

 

In hotlap mode.

They're just very different and that's strange because AC always was(IS) the racing sim when it comes to physics and tyre modelling.

There were also many many discussions on many forums about when cars in a particular sim are difficult to drive, the sim must be realistic.

So in that way we can dismiss Assetto Corsa?

Cheers
Robin

 

In one hour I for sure know how a sim phisically feels plus tyremodel. 100%.
Never driven a Huracan GT3 off course but many hours on real life trackdays and driftdays in 'fast' streetcars plus thousands of hours in other sims.


I just don't like the ACC tyremodel/griplevel atm.

Cheers
Robin

 

Being loose doesn't mean difficult to control....
They were both stock setups.

My real life track driftcar is loose but rather easy to control.

The oversteer correction in AC is how it should be(not too easy, slicktyres, downforsce etc) imo.
In ACC it's frustrating, unrealistic imo.

I'm not the fastest AC simdriver with only 6:46 or so in 458GT2 Nordschleife online, but that car is managable for me , without TC and nannies on.

Why are the ACC cars so frustrating and disconnected to drive and unforgiving?

Let's put the blame on Early Access then....

Cheers
Robin

 

It's frustrating you because you didn't get the memo on OVERDRIVING! The devs did a pretty good job of explaining the importance of not overdriving in ACC. I know you are using too much steering input. Let this sink in and I promise you will improve. In ACC- just like IRL you NEVER drive the car past the limit of front grip. And in real life you have to coax a car into a turn using as little input as is needed and applying the input as gradually as possible, never turning too much. It's really easy to over turn in this sim. Let me say that again {It's really easy to turn the wheel too far} Just like IRL! This will cause a push. even in a neutral or loose car. A driver induced understeer will usually, at the point you back out of the throttle, cause an uncontrollable swing to an oversteer. Which is probably what's happening to you. In real life you have to learn the limit and stay within that limit. Hit every apex as tight as you can- every time! IRL the feedback you use to feel the limit comes through your backside- as I'm sure you know. In AC, fake ffb cues are used to transmit the limit to the driver. They are not the same in ACC, butt they are there. They are more subtle and most likely require higher grade hardware to fully appreciate. VR makes a difference as well. But if you accept that the car will not knock you in the head when you give it too much input, and try to compensate for that, you will start to click with it. I'll give you two sure fire techniques to help you stay within the limit. 1- Are you on the apex curb? If you are constantly missing the apex- you're going too fast. Slow down- and if the curb has tire rubber on it- Hit it! Every time. 2- Are you one of those guys who leaves skid marks from the front tires. Watch a noob online- He lays down front tire rubber in every turn. You may not have an oversaturated ffb cue in ACC for the balance- but the tire animation includes that black stripe that is laid down from the front tires when you turn the wheel too far. And it goes ScrEEEch as well!

 

I will try it, you have a point. But I'm not using to much steering input in Assetto Corsa, but anway thank Tim.

Cheers
Robin

 

Points that I learned from this thread:

1) A real driver is the only that can judge a sim.
2) A real driver has not the same setup and meteo values and grip as in IRL, so he can't judge
3) A simdriver that never raced GT3 car can't judge a sim (ACC in this case).

So: nobody can't judge a sim.

And this a sort of a philosophical theme!

Who can?
(I'm serious)

My thoughts:
As far as I know ACC is (the only?) a sim-game created by a team that was able to speak to engineers and pilot and to look at cars from the competition they want to simulate. Assuming that the software may suffers or benefits from the talents of his programmers I think ACC Final will be the best sim-game of Blancpain that we actually can have.

 

I find his review in steam very strange. Sounds like there's some kind of frustration on it, like he was expecting too much.
Basically he is saying that is no good without the explanation that should come from a guy on is position.

Of course I have a lot of questions, his he an avid Simrace like many other RL pilots? Are there other titles reviews from him? What kind of gear he's using?

To say the true I think what he is trying to do is demote the ACC potential. Just think about the amount of data Kunos have access in all aspects from the real thing, how they have been passionate and talented to deliver the best Sim experience possible.

 

Look at Romain Monti youtube chanel, he is real life blancpain driver (hurucan 2018), and he felt at home when he tried the hurucan in ACC, he also managed to do the same time at paul ricard as he did in real life, for me it speaks for itself.
also he is often in the top 5 in ACC, he doesn't seem to have the same issue as you or other pro driver for accomodate, we are not all the same, each one has is own experience and thought, I think we just have to accept that the cars can't always been driven as we would want or think, and this is also the case in real life.
also a car from 2016 can drive differently than a car of 2018, evolution of the car elements, tyres..., this is why you can also to not have the same feeling between the 2 cars.

 

I think being a professional driver has little to do of how accurate you can review a SIM. That depends a lot of how often do you use sims, how many different you use and so on. For me the best example was Nicki Thiim comparison of 911 GT3 cup car in RR. iR and AC. While he said it was really close between first and second, he still gave the first place for iRacing even though he also said it was the worst tire model of the three.. Also, he used default setups, which meant in AC the ABS was on. So even though he loved the feedback in AC, the tire model was the best by far he still leaned to iRacing as it is what he uses most often.

I don't think anyone here is questioning the guys credentials, but I just thing there is waaaaay too little info in that review to take it seriously.

 

The steering input/feel/feedback/tyremodel(?) in AC is a tad different from ACC. I really missed the memo on overdriving.
I'm now doing less steering inputs in ACC and in a way it works just better, so thanks for that!

But because I've been driving AC for 4 years and thousands hundreds of hours* I still have to get used to ACC.

*Thanks to the missus for still being with me

Cheers
Robin

 

Also have in mind, that (I think?) we don't know what slick tire in AC we had and how that tyre relates to ACC. Also, in AC you have 3 different compounds, there is and will only be one in ACC (not counting wet tyres).