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Assetto Corsa Competizione - 2020 Generic discussion

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by dave967, Oct 22, 2019.

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  1. azzah

    azzah Simracer

    We already have an option for server admins to enable full manually formation laps / race starts.

    The responsibilty that this doesn't end up in complete carnage lies with the server admins, and so it is only available in non-public servers.

    I know that this is not ideal, but when you want to establish a system that can operate without supervision, then you have to solve those problems like the aforementioned joker on p6.

    Just defining the race as "high ranked" by slapping on an arbitrary rating requirement doesn't magically make it work.
     
    Freddie Seng likes this.
  2. Si.

    Si. Simracer

    If you have a server admin and they restart the race does SA and other ratings get reset as if the race hadn’t yet started?
     
  3. Should be able at open servers too o_O

    Like I said a very uncommon example for higher ranked servers and bascially the same way of argumention as in the discussion about false starts in AC. Which worked "suprisingly" very well after it's introduction. :cool:
    In my countless hours at open servers in AC I've never experienced anything near to the nightmare and worst case scenarios of Kunos and scared users.

    For what exact reason SA is even existing? It's just an arbitrary rating requirement, isn't it?
     
  4. azzah

    azzah Simracer

    I called it "arbitrary" because you didn't give any indication of what "high ranked" means to you.

    Now, what is your suggestion? But before you blurt out any arbitrary number: imagine being the recipient of all the complaints from the people you locked out.
     
  5. azzah

    azzah Simracer

    I'm trying for some clarification on my opinion, as it appears I haven't been clear enough:

    I am not against a more open start sequence.

    What rubs me the wrong way is folks going "It's so easy, why don't you just..." and it is clear that the implemenation would not be nearly as easy because it is so darn easy to poke holes in that nice little red balloon of an idea...

    Minolin has stated before that from a game dev's perspective, you can't necessarily expect your users to think things through when they come up with ideas and wishes.

    Well I'm not a game dev, and I ask you to:
    - think your ideas through and try to break them
    - if they're still cool, present them in a constructive manner
    - try doing that without leaving some terms open for interpretation, they might not mean the same to you as to other people

    (sorry for the rant)
     
  6. GRFOCO

    GRFOCO Alien

    Easy solutions, if someone want find it.

    Example.
    If multiple (2? 3? More?) cars overtake the joke car cause this is slow, warning comes only for the slow car.

    How can the system judge the "slow"?
    By in-front gap. (Joke car has a gap of 5? 8? 10? car length)
    By average speed. (Joke car has average speed, checked every 2? 3? 5? seconds, lower x% than car in front)

    First 2 example comes in my mind.
    I hardly think that a professional dev's team like Kunos can have many more solutions, way more smart than mine, if they would push on this.
    In addition, what does the RL rules says?
    Something to take as example?

    Anyway.
    Are there other stuff more important than manual start procedure? Yes, sure. A lot.
    Is manual start procedure essential for us players? Tbh no.

    But please don't say that for a team who made what have made with AC and ACC this is an almost impossible feature.
    Simply, it's not a stuff on the "to-do" list, as manual pit limit wasn't in AC at the time for example.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  7. azzah

    azzah Simracer

    How long do RL stewards take to decide on a possible infraction during the start procedure? If it was always that easy, they'd have a fully automated system, don't you think?
     
  8. D.Jankovic

    D.Jankovic Alien

    So easy fix for all the problems add the Safety Car :D :)
     
  9. Do you really need a specific number to get what I'm talking about?

    SA 75+

    Anyone can reach the necessary rating requirement if interested. Maybe as an achievement. Something you can aim for as a dedicated sim racer. ;)
     
  10. azzah

    azzah Simracer

    Jeez. The same drivers you previously said must brake to stay behind the other car should suddenly overtake? what is this, Schrödingers start sequence?
     
    Piret2000 likes this.
  11. azzah

    azzah Simracer

    I challenge you "it is so easy to..." guys:

    come up a comprehensive rule set that enables a computer program to oversee a full manual start without using rubbery words like "just" etc. or requiring human reasoning to decide whether that one action was allowable in case a, but not in case b.

    if that ends up actually looking feasible (without months of testing and tweaking) I'm pretty sure the guys at Kunos would happily jump on the opportunity to implement it.
     
  12. GRFOCO

    GRFOCO Alien

    I don't know of you are talking knowing rolling starts or what.

    In F1 Codemaster series and in iracing manual rolling starts are so easy as they are in rl.
    Nothing more, nothing less.

    In the example you quoted, ther's nothing strange in what i've said.

    You are in the middle of the group, go in the throttle and then in the brakes, go left and right a little bit to warm up tires and brakes, keep distances in front and leteral to you.

    The car in front to you brakes but you see that, even slowly, he keep going.
    You must remain in your position, always. This is what rules said.
    Do you overtake that car?
    Do you do this on purpose or accidentally?
    Doesn't matter, message on screen and slowly rejoin your position.
    More easy to do than to explain.

    Do the car in front brakes and stop himself?
    Do the car in front slow his pace than open a big gap with other cars?
    If the player in front do this cause hardware problems, or cause he is a troll, doesn't matter.
    You and other cars can overtake and nothing happens to you. No messages and no penalty for you and all the other cars that overtakes the slow car.
    On the contrary, in this case is the slow car that have the message to regain his position.

    Again, more difficult to explain by text than doing in the game.
    If you have already tried this in other games should know that nothing specials is behind this. At least, nothing special is required for the player.

    There can be some gray area in this.
    Yes, could be if some player at the same time do the exact same maneuvers.
    Always better than what we have now, when the first row go full throttle and gain seconds already at the starts, where you can gain or lose position and nothing happens (welcome 20 minutes qualify session).

    For sure, if no kind of update comes (even experimental), nothing will change.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  13. azzah

    azzah Simracer

    Finally, some effort put into an explanation of what you actually want instead of relying on the telepathic skills of the reader. (note: I'm not a telepath)

    If we can keep this up and maybe even expand it to other discussions, they might actually start leading somewhere!
     
  14. GRFOCO

    GRFOCO Alien

    Well, i was answering to Mino at the beginning. And if i've jumped some basic steps is because i think that a racing game's dev knows how rolling starts works, and what are common driver's maneuvers in that situation.
     
  15. To come up with this kind of argumentation will never end in a constructive way.
    Also I don't think there is a need for a 100% bulletproof system which will cover all possible and impossible situation. Maybe just a basic set of rules/guidelines and penalties.

    Maybe there are more fellow sim racers like me out there which wouldn't even need any kind of control system to behave well during the race start procedure.
     
  16. Si.

    Si. Simracer

    The issue is not with well behaved sim racers on your 75+ servers, it’s those that purposefully want to cheat the start process to gain advantage, don’t care who they hit or just carelessly drift out of position.

    Starts ruin more races than anything else but I doubt a fully manual start will ever work reliably on an unranked/or low ranked server. I believe if you get out of position (perhaps the radar could show a box around your car as a guide) then the computer needs to briefly take over and correct, not great but if I could get through T1 more frequently without an accident then ACC would be much better imo. I’m sure if people knew they may lose out if the lights go green while the computer has control they’d be more likely to try and stay in position.

    Also rather than what we have now i.e. bouncing off the limiter, I wonder if cutting power for period might be better if a max speed is exceeded, people may then be more likely to maintain a consistent speed knowing otherwise their power will be cut.
     
    Felge Schneider, trutya and chksix like this.
  17. F4celess

    F4celess Gamer

    I'm torn between wanting automated rolling starts like GTSport or keeping it as is and letting the bad apples figure out how to do them or be stuck in low SA.
     
  18. Si.

    Si. Simracer

    I know what you mean, I would prefer to keep as manual as possible with some computer control etc. as an option. Although IMO the starts on GT Sport are less frustrating and therefore more enjoyable.
     
  19. trutya

    trutya Simracer

    that's a nice idea...
     
  20. Felge Schneider

    Felge Schneider Hardcore Simmer

    I like the idea. Another problem with this could be, that the cars behind you, will also be slowed down, since they have to adapt to your speed. (massive pre-start crash potential)

    Which speed is allowed in real life?
     
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