GTR 2 Replacement?

TLDR: Read last paragraph

Potential buyer here, looking for a modern game that is worth the typical $60 that most sim games keep demanding, but I try one game out, then another, only to be disappointed by their efforts (Codemasters, Project Cars 1, Assetto Corsa, RACE 07) ... okay I like RACE 07 but it is not like GTR2, too much AI control over the car when I first had it (and other stuff I don't have time to explain)... don't get me started on Codemasters, last game I took seriously from them was F1 2011.

By the way I tried a Ferrari F1 2013 around Spa in AC, loaded in game Spa set up before heading out, why does this car act fine for the first 4 laps and then spins on the 5th? I tried adjusting toe on rear wheels and car did feel better but same thing keeps happening, its not the rear wing because the car never did spin in high speed areas. I never had that issue with other games, makes me worry about trying anything new from the same dev. Then I look at videos of other people in slightly different F1 cars and they have traction where I had very little :/. And I don't like the fact of the AI tapping my rear left quarter and then somehow I get front wing damage, which I'm not sure if that did anything at all. And getting a penalty for going off track avoid AI shenanigans and then get a cut track penalty despite I gained nothing from that (at least CodeJockies got that right). I feel tempted to give it another go but the truma is too much.

Anyway, Project Cars came from part of the team that made GTR2 but some parts of their games were a complete joke. I know being a developer is difficult but when minimal effort is done to improve, imma gonna bash on ya all day long.

Codemasters, even though I hate those guys for what they did back then, I see that oddly enough their games were like a F1 version of GTR2, all tracks, all cars, full sessions (P1, P2, P3, Q1, Q2, Q3, (missing warmup) and Race), even safety cars (which goes beyond GTR2). But they seem to insist on AI taking control of your car during pitting (which is a big problem at Brasil) and after finishing a race year after year, $60 after $60. No I did not buy every F1 game at full price and refuse to do so until I see that all that AI control crap is gone.

Project Cars 2, many improvements, just like GTR2 with multiple series and left out tracks. But they brought Indycar in, and the lead dev thinks safety cars are boring and left the safety cars out.... has he paid attention to an Indycar race? and with what I heard about their AI during crashes, it seems like they need it XD

Looking at this game so far I see a lot of what GTR2 had, I looked through the YouTube videos and as usual, streamers leave out details. Does this game have all practice and qualifying sessions? Why I ask for multiple sessions? P1 dry, P2 wet, P3 dry (full fuel load), Q1 dry, Q2 dry, Q3 wet, Race mixed (happened in F1 2011 one time, until CodeJockies broke the game). Plus getting used to various lighting situations. I know about the safety car situation and I hope it happens (don't let CodeJockies beat you). So far, I do see complete control over the car with no AI control crap. Plus I know this is game is just about GT3... but any plans to expand from just GT3? Indycar, IMSA (whateva their name is now), F1 (longshot) and relevant tracks?

 

Slightly off topic, how many coffees do you drink per day?

 

The sim is pretty awesome and has amazing level of detail trying to replicate SRO's official championships, totally worth $60 imo.
Having said that, you sound like the kinda person expecting a game 100% catered to your needs and zero flaws. No game has that, not now and not in 10 years.
If you decide to buy it, I'm sure you'll enjoy it based on what you're looking for and you'll get your money's worth but I'd also expect to see you back in this forum ranting about what's not there.
And no, don't expect anything beyond SRO's championships

 

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I can't quite follow your experience with AC, but then again I haven't driven the F1 cars much - I'm more comfortable with GT cars. You will have to expect that car behaviour changes over a stint however, that is simply realistic. Aero damage is overall improved in ACC, though I can't guarantee that there aren't any potential bugs like that. You'll be pleased to know that in races while there is no distinction between driving off-track yourself or getting punted off you'll now get warnings before getting a penalty, and penalties now consist of drive through or time added, not slow downs.

Yes, although currently in singleplayer superpole doesn't appear to be enabled in race weekend modes.

Sadly, the devs responded in this forum that it is not going to happen. And I'm going to hazard a guess that even if they implemented it, it would not play as nicelywith the AI as we all want it to. So maybe for the better, even if missing FCY/safety car removes quite a bit of strategy and unpredictable flow from endurance races...

Yes, no AI control whatsoever. But that also means there is no driver change to AI team mate (...yet, at least). You're in complete control for pitting, have turn the engine on and off, and can get pit lane speed infringement penalties.

You know this game is just about GT3 (Blancpain GT/GT World Challenge Europe and Intercontinental GT Challenge), you know that GTR 2 also only had GT content of limited scope and still ask this... well, you're in luck, a GT4 DLC is coming later this summer and a DLC with remaining tracks from British GT (but no word on liveries) some time after that. Anything beyond that, who knows. Wouldn't bet on it.

 

Perhaps a very simplistic response to your question, but I came back to simming since a long lay off (13 years) this year. The last game I played seriously was GTR 2. I hummed and hawed a fair bit over which game to try first. That game ended up being ACC and I am very happy with how it looks, plays, feels, setups etc compared to my last simming experience (GTR 2).

 

Just get it you will enjoy it

 

I do not plan to spend much time on forums because I used to in the past a bit too much. Previous forum I was on, we had a problem with rude members and moderators did not do anything to clean that behavior up... turns out... the moderators were quite rude too, so clearly that problem won't get cleaned up. Forum after that was on Dovetails site, absolutely lovely place from what I could see so far. I hope moderators here will keep rude members in check, but I do not plan to spend much time here.

Thanks Epistolarius and mitchgixer6 for an appropriate reply. But I'm a bit stunned to find out that driver swaps cannot be done, that is the one point where I would not mind AI having control, I am pretty much telling them to take control, very odd. I never got to the point of doing driver swaps in GTR2 but I was always afraid of how it would work especially during the 24 hour race. If I fell asleep and they pitted what would happen? if they pit for maintenance would they switch?.... plus would they screw up?

As for expanding outside of GT3, I am a Formula loving car guy so I would really like to see what this developer can do for Indycar... I would also say F1 but they are expensive and I don't know if they are under an exclusive contract or what. I would also like to see a IMSA addon too, there is so much focus on Euro tracks, but America got road and street courses too (and so does Asia) but if it cannot be added on to this game then it is what it is. And I'm also kinda leaning to rFactor 2 as well (they got my home track!), but they don't seem to have a focus... or laser scanned tracks (if it makes much of a difference), and I do have R3E (only the free stuff) which uses the same engine, go figure, you have a Simbin game, then you have rFactor.

Sorry anthonylroy but I tend to be a bit stingy... granted I would sure choose this game over Project Cars 2, don't know why it's still $60 after almost three years, ACC has dropped in price a lot quicker... if it ever did cost $60 in the first place.

One impossible request I would make, is for realistic extreme damage, something that will make the developers of Burnout Paradise jealous. Simulating the crumple zones of every vehicle and what area specific damage can do to the vehicle, even go as far as disabling the vehicle, only area that wouldn't receive damage would be the roll cage since those tend to be quite indestructible anyway. Maybe try to convince the manufactures that this is a way to punish bad drivers so they can't turn a session into a bumper cart arena. If I was making a game I would go as far as using unlicensed vehicles to make that happen. Maybe if I win the lottery perhaps I will take the money, make my own team, and give it a go.

 

From the initial post it sounded like you're in to buying one of the GT cars and not $39.99 game. I don't get it why such scrutiny over this...I apologize if maybe you're really tight with money, but then again you shouldn't be spending it on games if you're really that bad financially.

You also need quite good PC to run this game properly, so again...think about the investment if money is key here.

ACC is the best GT3 championship sim ever after GTR2, and I spent countless hours in GTR2...many more in Motec analyzing laps. rFactor2 is 7 years old game...in sim timelines this is a century worth of simulation development, and I urge you to read about all the advanced modelling of different car parts and interaction with the outside world ACC has implemented to this date.

And I actually now believe this is the right format for any racing sim...stick to one type of cars and don't spread around so much like PC2. Get one thing right, and Kunos did it for real this time.

 

If you didn't enjoy AC then ACC probably isn't for you. Maybe wait until the next time it is on sale and then give it a go during the two hour trial period.

 

GTR2 is my most played sim until today...several 1000 hours (no record of data but i played it from actual release until 2017 almost daily)

For me, ACC is that what comes the closest to GTR2 possible, without the chance of adding mods though, but each car has its own character and the WEATHER SYSTEM is, what makes ACC feel like driving as an actual race driver in situations, you have to adapt to.

I'm lucky enough to have the chance to play almost every sim on the market (luckily, software is not that expensive in that hobby if you are not buying all at once) and for GT3 cars, ACC (SRO) and R3E (ADAC GT Masters) are my absolute favourite sims to drive.

But in general, Automobilista, R3E and ACC are my absolute Top 3 in experiencing racing in the virtual world.

Coming from GTR2, all these newer sims are *mindblowing*, in terms of driving and immersion...

 

Free weekend is around the corner if I recall correctly. Try then buy.

Content is limited to the official cars and tracks so do not expect a large library of either.
I appreciate this because it is series focused.

Sessions are there, dynamic, and progressive.

I would not assume anything beyond what Kunos officially announces. Buy ACC for what it is and not what the rumors claim it will become.

For assorted classes, content, etc I use AC with SOL/CSP amongst other popular mods. Some things like tire temps are funky ans require tweaking to correct but otherwise been my driving sim.

When or if you get the game you will want to review the Acc Blog section on this forum for information, tips, and hints from devs and whatnot.
Otherwise you will have to feel the game out because of the lack of info, tutorials, guidelines, etc.
Compare the game to official documentation if needed.

 

For realistic driving ACC is a no brainier plus it has all the things you want. the realistic amount of sessions as per rules of SRO series.different lighting conditions,rain all that.

 

If you want specialised GT3 content, there is nothing better than ACC. Within the scope of GT3, ACC is the to-go-to-sim. Also its rain driving is second to none. Very convincing. Great cockpit immersion.

If you want a wider scope of cars, you have some choices. AC is one. Its advantage is its moddability, offering you almost unlimited addon mod content in tracks and cars. If modding is not so relevant for you, there is Raceroom, it has the best factory track pool in business and a damn good racing AI. Then there is Automobilista on which i do not comment much since i intentionally do not know it (I can only drive so and so many sims and not more). But I heard only good things about it, and part 2 is in the starting block.

I would say that these three sims all are in the same quality zone, physics-wise. I cannot imagine how one could regret to have gotten any of these.

With Project Cars I am cautious. I did not like the first too much, and the second had lousy Fanatech hardware support that had me quitting and refunding. From what i read, the quality of car physics and such is very mixed, depends on the car, but in general it probbaly is not en par with AC/C, RR, AMS.

In case you have a Playstation, do not underestimate Gran Turismo Sports. Its different, and more in the Project Cars catgeory of things, but it does many things damn well. And its fun and superb looks.

If this is relevant for you, ACC, AC, RR all offer solid, good VR.

AC means you use the Sol and Manager Content mod, which do some really magically things with this old sim. Consider these as must-haves, like the CrewChieff app.

P.S.
On the physics of AC/C and RR, they both are done by magicans who combine theoretical competence and numbers knowledge and practical experience, both are well versed in coding and race physics and engineering stuff, and both hold experience with real world racing license, S3's Alex Hodgkinson shared driving school and first season with a certain Lewis Hamilton, Kunos' Aris holds or held licenses for race classes as well. When theoretical knowledge pairs up with practical experience, big things happen! Both sims show that. Interestingly, in my perception the physics of Competizione in the way I "feel" them have moved away a bit from the "light" and sensible feel of AC and more towards the more robust, heavy feel of RR, while RR' physics have moved away from their feelings in 2015 towards a more diverse, complex feeling like to be seen in Competizione. To me, ACC physics now combine the best of both worlds, with Raceroom being very close to them. The cars in ACC and RR feel heavy, material, "real", are no lightweight toy boxes with steering reacting too easily.

The best AI is in Raceroom. Competizione is close, but more pacifistic, and less eager to start rumbles. Both offer you good AIs to race against, but if you want more excitement caused by an aI and more entertainment triggered by the AI, Raceroom edges out Competizione.

Classical AC looses in sounds to the two other sims. ACC has taken the crown from RR there. Both sims offer fantastic sounds.

Pick any of these three. Any way you cant go wrong.

 

Good summary above....just to add re AMS2. For early access it's shaping up well. It's big sell is it's unusual content, particularly tracks where there are some real gems you won't find elsewhere, and it's lower level open wheel and Prototype cars are an absolute blast to drive.

 

ACC is the sim closest to GTR2 imo. In both you have two fully licensed GT seasons. There are different weather conditions (e.g. R3E doesn't have them), MoTeC setup support and many other design decisions that are very similar. And both are, in terms of physics, one of the most educated racing simulations at their time. However, ACC doesn't feature a pace car ;P

 

I try to make it short....

My first SIM was GTR2. I played it a lot.
Then came Race07/GTR Evolution, what was not bad, but was not really what I liked bout GTR2.
Later I moved to Project CARS, what had awesome-awesome potential, but the developers did not really take advantage of the potential of the game...
I also tried Assetto Corsa (1), but did not like it.

Then somewhere around October-November last year, I learned about ACC...
I decided to give it a go.

I was stunned... At first because it took me hours to set up my wheel properly.
I even had it refunded by Steam, because I just could not get around the handling of it.
But then I tried again, and this time I was able to set up my wheel properly.

Once you overcome this obstacle, you will have a true gem of a game/SIM.
In my opinion, and experience, (for me) this is the BEST, GT Racing SIM made as of today.

Its not perfect, but from what I have seen from the developers in these last 8 months, they really do work hard to make the game better and better, and us happier, and happier.
It has not too many tracks, and also only has GT3 cars at the moment, but GTR2 also did not have many tracks and cars. (Most were later modded in).

BUT!
A GT4 DLC is coming this summer!
Later we will get some British GT tracks, and who knows even later, maybe we go to other new places to race, and I also think, we will get more car classes.

What we have in the game are almost all current GT3 cars.
We have some of the best European tracks, and some true gems from around the world.

But what is much more important for me:
Great physics, Awesome dynamic weather simulation, Safety Rating, Competition Servers.
This is the first game where in open multiplayer (with high Safety Rating), and on Competition Servers I can RACE against other people, as most of them do respect you, and give you room. Because of the SA rating if people want to keep racing on servers that require high SA rating, they need to make sure not to hit each other, and THIS in my opinion is one of the most important parts of the Multiplayer. Sure S#!T happens. But mostly the races are clean, people do not look for bumping you off track intentionally, as their SA Rating will drop too.

So (in my opinion), if you loved GTR2, I think you will also love ACC.
I do!

 

I 2nd everything said here, agree with all.

 

Just to add that the number of cars may be small in comparison to other sims, but each of those cars are modelled to a high level of detail, and drives very differently.

If anything you are going to find that you will have to stick with one or two to be competitive.