Driving Technique Discussion

I'm lost....my Monza thread has been shoveled in here too.
I'm done with contributing to this over moderated forum.

 

I would wager it was done because you asked questions that would have been found in this thread in a search.

 

Guys - just 1 hour ago I gained immidiately almost 1s on every tracks, by doing one thing...

From the beginning I was wonder why I am always loosing to other drivers on brakes. Each track, every time everyone were able to brake later than me. Even when I was winning a race - I was much slower one brakes.
And I found it today. Some how I did not brake on 100%. I have a TPA brakes with conical rubber under the brake pedal, I like it but somehow i did not press the pedal as much as I needed.

So... if my left foot does not want to cooperate... I have done it like this: https://imgur.com/dhluNVv

Now - like I said, I have gained almost 1 second on Monza (from 1:49:2 to 1:48:4 ) and similar on Barcelona (from 1:44:2 to 1:43:3)
Holy crap... !

 

wow, 0% to 30% ... are you still able to control the brake or is it more like on-off?

 

I feel I can control it, at least I don't push anyone butt... I haven't check how the brake bar looks like while I'm braking, but while I am now almost 1s faster... I don't much care about it

Edit: Now I understan what are you asking for. It's not from 0 to 30%. I have dropped maximum limit by 30%. So it's from 0 to 70% now and work best for me.

 

Does anyone have tips on how to hit your braking points when following someone closely? It may just be because I’m in VR but when I close up on someone (within .3) I am visually blocked by the car in front and it becomes very hard to see many of my braking points. Inevitably I start braking very early out of caution and then I’m down .5 or .6 by the end of that turn. It makes it much harder to pass.

 

I'm driving in cockpit only (no VR) with a single FHD monitor. Not much to see for me either when I'm following another car very close.
In practice session I tend to look actively to the left side (for a right turn and look right for a left turn) way before breaking point to memorize at least one, maybe two objects/markers or something distinct to orientate. To know my breaking point is about to come.
Then when I'm behind someone and can't see in the distance I still get that marker on the left of the road and I know I have to brake now.
You know you should brake earlier when following a car closely than when no on is on front, right? To not hit the car in front.
Aris explained it very well.

 

Yes, I’m already doing that, in fact over compensating, which is the problem. I want to be able to follow closely in order to make an eventual pass. But I can’t when I cannot see my normal braking point or any adjusted braking point so I end up braking extra early just to be safe, which drops me further back and puts me out of a passing position.

 

Maybe I misunderstand you.
If you want a clean pass on the brake, you should be next to him and not behind him when reaching the brakepoint.
If you, on the other hand, want a better acceleration out of that upcoming turn, you shouldn't be so close behind him.
Aris' taught us you can't accelerate earlier when you are too close to the leading car, because first you have to wait for him to accelerate or you'd bump into him.
So back up before the turn, take a slightly different line to accelerate earlier and better than him to make your pass.

 

I appreciate you trying to help, but you’re not helping. I’m just looking for tips on how to follow closely. As mentioned, When I get within .3, I cannot stay there because I cannot see, so I brake early and fall back to .5 or .6. There is little chance to pass anyone when you’re that far back.

Yes I plan to eventually pass, but not necessarily on that turn. I’m trying to stay close to make a move at some point, for example a more beneficial part of the track. And giving up all that time whenever I get near someone isn’t helpful.

I have no real issues matching the acceleration, but if I can’t see a braking point I cannot safely follow. If you watch an SRO event they are all right up on each other like train cars, so I wanted tips on how to do something similar

 

You should be able to brake a bit earlier and get away with it. If your that close to the car in front your probably faster. You basically need to use them and other things as braking references. I'm in VR so it's pretty straight forward to just pick a different braking point by looking in a different place. You could always move to the inside in a fake overtaking move so they move off the racing line giving you a view of your braking points.

But I think over all you need to find different braking references, over time it should almost become a muscle memory thing. You could also just brake when they brake, that only becomes a problem if they out brake themselves.

 

As long as there is no other car behind you that you need to defend from, braking earlier (even way too early) is the right way to follow a car closely. The earlier braking point ensures that you won't crash into the car in front.

Because you are braking earlier, you don't need to threshold brake all the way up to the apex. I think that is where you are loosing the time. Slam the brakes at the start of the braking zone. Once the car in front has startet decelerating, your gap will have increased quite a bit. So slowly reduce brake pressure and start creeping towards the car, closing the gap down again. Towards the apex you might need to increase the pressure again to avoid bumping into the car in front, if you are closing the gap too fast. Ideally you want to still have some distance between you and the car in front at the apex so you can accelerate out of the corner without waiting for the other car to do so.

Another way to do this, instead of finding appropriate braking points, would be to use the car in front as a reference. Instead of actually braking earlier, just start coasting when reaching the braking zone. That will give you a little gap to the car in front that you will need when reacting to the brake lights of the other car. Once they show up, you start braking as well. Depending on your gap, you can still creep towards the car in front at the end of the braking zone or you will need to threshold brake up to the apex. Of course this method will only work, if the car in front doesn't misjudge its braking point. Also, both cars should have a relatively similar braking performance, so I wouldn't recommend this with GT4s.

 

As I said, memorize at least one other break point on the side of the track a bit before your normal brakepoint and when passing this brakepoint hit it.
If you are .3 behind a car and you wait until it's brake light come up before braking, you're gonna hit him, no matter what. Exactly this is explained in the video.
Or as @Turk mentioned, go inside so you can see in the distance. Maybe he will cover the inside line, then switch back to the outside. If not, you got the inside line and an open view.
Those trains you mention... they are not .3s away each other all the time. In slow turns or chicanes they are up to .5 as well but can regain .3 on the straight again.

 

I second C#27's advice of keeping your early braking point, then reduce the pressure until you are slightly gaining during braking until you get to your normal corner speed.
Advice is mega in theory but, for me, this is wicked hard to do in practice as what I tend to do is release too much, then have to slam on just before turn-in which unsettles the car.
Beauty of SP is that the AI is so consistent. I've started to choose a AI that I'm 1-2 seconds faster and the try to follow so I'm less than 0.5 behind them going into a corner and then can be similar or less accelerating out.
I turn off ratings since I usually end up punting a few AI's out of the way.

 

You cannot brake at the usual marker, because slipstream will suck you in.
You have to brake earlier, and if you are good, manage the pedal the stay close.

 

If you think in sro they brake as usual you are wrong

 

But if you read what I wrote, you wouldn’t be answering like this. I am well aware of braking earlier when following (I have a 99 SA rating). But when you adjust a braking point, you still use a visual marker. For me, I just take my same braking point cue and back it up 10 meters or whatever. And the fact I can’t see my original braking marker doesn’t make it any easier to find my adjusted braking point, in fact it just makes it harder because I have even less reaction time.

Take the entrance to Maggots and Beckett’s at Silverstone. When you are following closely you cannot see where the where the curbing is, and that is my normal visual cue for braking and/or downshifting. And it’s relatively important to stay close there so I can “hopefully” get a good push on the way out and potentially make a pass at or before the hangar straight.

 

Thanks everyone for the help. I need to practice more on modulating my braking and looking for secondary braking points it seems. Plus, I may try swinging out more and swing back at the last second but that would seem to add potentially extra instability into a turn. May need to practice that one a bit!

 

Now onto throttle application, I noticed some very fast guys are mashing the throttle and then letting TC do its job. Is it the faster technique? Or can you gain some time by modulating throttle to prevent TC intervention?

 

@Mathieu Labbé - depends on your skills / what you like. Nils Naujoks for example often uses less TC, some other very fast aliens barely touch the setup (amazingly). Some change TC on a lap multiple times (remember the McLaren 720s event winner at silverstone).
I tried setups from Nils and sometimes gain with less TC, sometimes struggle a lot.
GT4 - Maserati - some aliens are freaking fast with this car. - no TC, no ABS.