Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

Turbo, that was completely on the black Porsche. You gave all the room in the world and were basically in the gravel when the contact happened. Like you said, it's just an 18 minute public lobby so you're not going to back off and theyre not gonna back off. Looks like they just took too much curb and bounced wide into you. Frustrating for sure, but that's racing.

Also, the first move into that right hander (sorry I can't remember the name of the corner) was a little bit ambitious. I feel with a bit more patience there you could have set them up for a much better exit off the left hander and been past them before the next right hander and hopefully if they bounced off the curb and ran wide, they'd have run wide into the gravel and not into you. But again, 18 minute races don't lead to much patient driving and I can't say that in the heat of the moment i wouldn't make the same move.

 

With hindsight you're probably right. I'd already been punted out of the lead a few laps earlier (a bump-draft love tap just before Blanchimont at the end of lap 1 then into the back of me on the exit of the Bus Stop at the end of lap 2) so wasn't in the mood to take prisoners.

 

What is it with people doing that in this game...had a couple of people do that to me this week....if that's how they wanna play they should just go race ovals in iracing

 

I started to worry for a second thinking that was me. I run that livery all the time and I've literally in 200+ hours of playing never seen anyone else run it.

 

How's your swearing in French??

 

Good evening and hello
Would like to hear your honest opinions and explanation on those incidents. Thanx in advance.
When i was driving, of course it felt like it was the fault of the other drivers. Not so sure anymore after watching replay:

 

I feel both are racing incident. Both drivers in each case seem to be very inexperienced. They are unaware of the messurements of their car and their position to other cars on track. I also see too much eagerness and just not giving each other enough room.

 

The first one has to be explained.
It is Mclarens fault, because it cuts the line of the amg whis is on the side.
But the real problem is that both cars dont see each other, and the mclaren has no radar 100%.
Using the radar should be mandatory in multiplayer.

The second one is audis fault, but the ferrari should not brake there. Still audis fault.
What happened in the last corner is not a racing accident, just racing.

 

thanks for your reply

Iam inside the yellow McLaren and i did use the radar although i might have focused on the car infront.
When i saw the replay first in helicam i was shocked and thought i had really cut his line but actually i would have never expected him to be there but rather be behind on the line of the black ferrari which i think he wanted to overtake.
Where should i have gone? Wasnt the Merc actually behind me and actually just ramming me? I mean he had almost 2 carswidth on my right side.
I dont want to justify anything if i have done something wrong just a lil bit more explanation.

and concerning the last two on nurburgring.
so you would consider this not a "divebomb" but a legit attempt to overtake?
I felt on the first one I, the Ferrari was a bit optimistic. But was it still enough to be considered alongside with him so both had a right for a line through corner? If so, i would say the audi closed the door into me. His fault.
the second one i think i really was side by side. He didnt leave much room, i messed up and slipped over the curbs into him. Fault on me.

/edit
funny thing on the 1st incident. When i focus solely on me it feels like i kick him out.
When i focus solely on the AMG it looks like he is ramming me. Weird.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say the first one is the McLaren's fault. More a racing incident, I mean the mcLaren kept on the racing line although he should have known the AMG could have been there. But the AMG put itself in a dangerous place. I would say 50/50

second one i would say the same, cutting in front right at the braking point is dangerous. Although the other car should have anticipated better.

 

No, the radar is useless, keeps your eyes off the road.

I have to agree with David here, both are racing incidents.
The first one was down to the sloppy lines of both cars (McLaren should have turned more before accelerating, Mercedes had no business decreasing radius that late leaving itself so much space on the outside.)
The second is the responsibility of the Audi, essentially. Because going from off-track so aggressively into a turn is just dumb, but the Ferrari took a huge risk cutting into the corner like that.

 

I don't understand how you could not see him while using the radar.
And he has the right to stay in his line. You are on the inside, so you have to leave a spece outside. You clearly cut his line there, no question.

When you are approaching a corner while breaking, you cannot change line. That's the rule.
Anyway the last corner in the ring pushes you to break into the apex. It is an almost impossible place to pass.
In that case the ferrari tries anyway, because he must have tought the audi was going a bit wide, or leaving the room opened.
Indeed the audi was just that bit wide, to allow the ferrari to sneak in with just a little contact, which is allowed outside of f1.
The ferrari could have made the corner easely.

In turn 2 instead, there is no breaking, there is no way you can make the corner at that speed while trying to overtake from the inside.
Unless you don't care about sending the people to the moon, of course.
An experienced driver knows that. Infact, you just need to watch the outcomes to understand the fundamental huge dufference in the two manouvers.

P.S. Divebombing means that the overtaking driver goes all in, outbreaking himself and forcing the defending driver to leave a space, or they both die.
In the last corner in the ring audi was not defending, and there was just the right space.

This is the funniest comment ever. Only if you are on vr or triples, you may try to not use the radar.
Even in that case, the visibility will be not enough.
You don't need to keep your eyes on the radar, it is transparent and it lies in the middle of the screen.
Lol. In real life they use it, and it is hidden in the middle of the cockpit.
I don't understand how the radar can be distracting.

 

Even if I am 10 meters behind, if you do not even attempt to go for the defensive line, I can overtake.
And that is because it is not like you can close the door while breaking. We are talking about the right difference in speed, that allowes the one that overtakes to steel the space of just 1 car.

Another thing is when you arrive at 50kmh faster into the apex, and you take 2 or 3 times the space of a car. Not everything is "divebombing"

 

To, first one is more on the AMG, as there is no reason not to keep the outside there. I can see why the 720s would follow that line since hes trying to overtake, but he would assume the AMG to stay right, which he should have done IMO.

Second one, Audi's fault to me as even if the Ferrari did brake in a weird place, hes in front so the Audi should have taken it more cautiously. To be honest though, I could see myself doing that exact same error, having too much confidence in other drivers racecraft is often the biggest mistake one can make. (In public servers)

 

First video is a racing deal. You've got 5 cars racing in very close quarters and unfortunately both the McLaren and Merc we're aiming for the same part of the track on exit and met in the middle. The McLaren did seem a little spooked almost, they were making a lot of mistakes and didn't seem comfortable with what was going on around them. They also seemed on a trajectory to possibly make contact with the black ferrari on exit had they not made contact with the Mercedes. The Mercedes could have also done a better job checking their surroundings to know not to cut down so far on exit. But the reality is we're mostly all just racing on a single screen with limited view and these sort of things happen. Was this avoidable with more caution on both parties? Yes. Was either driver explicitly at fault? No.


2nd clip I put on the Audi. The contact happened behind the rear wheel of the ferrari and the ferrari had position ahead of the Audi for the entirety of corner entry, meaning that the ferrari "owns" the corner as the lead car. Also it looks like the audi lunged on entry and missed the braking point and apex and probably would have run wide if the ferrari wasn't there to help them turn.

Edit: didn't realize there was a second incident in video 2.

This clip is basically the same story as the first incident, just roles reversed. The ferrari was a bit too ambitious on entry and didn't really have enough position to justify the move, bounced it off the curb and clipped the audi. Luckily this was more of a no harm no foul incident and neither car lost much time or sustainable damage.

 

@stp86, so to answer the question "who's at fault?":

It's no ones fault in particulair in any of the incidents. It's just poor racecraft all around. No hard feelings, just calling the monkey by its name.

 

Thank you for all your inputs. Seems there are some kind of different views on the different incidents but consensus on my racecraft! Gotta go practising again.

/edit

One more thing.
When would you consider cars side by side on turn in to justify that both cars can claim a line through the same corner at the same time. How much space has to be left then. Some say atleast 3/4 of a carwitdt (if there is no wall), so you can actually force the inside car on grass?
I read a lot through this thread and there are some different views. Like do you have to be on the A pillar, on the height of the driver (with your wheels or frontedge of car?) or on the axis of the rear wheels with your front wheels?

 

It's not about that. You can never claim a line if that means contact or a crash is unavoidable. Racing is something you do together. You need to respect each other.

If the other is a dick or just makes a mistake which could compromise your race, you need to anticipate. Even if that means you have to give up a position.

In a league there will be stuward(s) that can review incidents and hand out penalties. On public servers, you'll just have to accept it's like this.

 

Snoeipaard said well.
It's not difficult.
You have to ask yourself two questions:
Have I got enough space to go (inside or outside)?
Can I get stink into the apex without contact?


People will never let you go without fighting.
If you think you can do whatever you want, just because you are in the right place, you are wrong anyway.
Respect. Respect. Respect.
That does not mean you have to be a fool.
You have to leave the space, but one car is enough ( if you can trust your opponents).

 

I try to give a car width and a half of space to someone I'm side by side with to account for netcode etc. I have no interest in squeezing them onto the grass or forcing them off wide because track limits etc. I know that's the popular way to race in F1 etc, but I find it appalling to to gain or lose places because you're either forcing someone wide or you get forced wide. I guess it's just because my background is in oval racing where if you push someone "wide" they're just going into the wall and they're going to collect you too most likely. I know many people believe whichever car is ahead should be able to take a normal racing line unabated, but I feel that racing with someone is like a dance, and if you're side by side then both drivers have to take a non-standard line in order to account for each other.