Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

You are talking about a straight line maneuver. I noted the turn lights especially at the point with the corner taking the outside line, because I know about this misconception.
An example: I'm the one to be lapped. There is a long left turn upcoming, so I'm on the racing line, which is on the right. The faster car is about 0.4-0.5s away, so not directly in my back but I would be in his way within the turn or at least at the exit. I'm planning to take the outside and turn on my right indicator. What can he expect?
He sees I'm aware of him, because I turned on the indicator. This implies I'm driving with surround awareness and not doing stupid stuff.
Would it be logical to assume I'm going to let him overtake me on the outside?
You agree that this doesn't fit, right? I'm showing him, I'm going to the outside and he can be sure I'm not getting in his way.

Nevertheless
Ever raced on the real Nordschleife? You are taught to indicate where you are going, like it is when driving on normal roads.

huh?
Of course you have. You have the racing line/lane and the other one.
If you are on the racing line and switching on the indicator it is your sign to switch/change lanes/lines.

 

Track day... not racing day just saying.

But if u think u prefer to see the guy ahaed indicating and then moving.. ok ..

I dont. if he gona move, just move. and indicates me where is empty.

 

Its best not to use indicators

I may be thinking about the last few people i saw using them, and was the way i said. and it felt corret when they did it.

But looking at the example andy gaved, of course its not logical to use the "wrong" indicator.

Its more of a factor of being predictable and determined in actions probably, when u use the indicator either way, its clear by the actions .. what u think ?

 

by the way, maybe there are rules about that. dont think i ever saw any menttions on that anywhere.

if there are rules on how to use them on streets why wouldnt be for races ?

 

Take a look at the end of point 6 -b. And i'd say thats common sense. U always indicate where YOUR car is going and not for others,on the streets and also on the track(beeing predictable)

 

honda's fault, you cannot cut the road lol

 

Agreed, whether it is due to the Honda drivers incompetence or not, that is irrelevant,... the Honda driver caused the accident.

 

Thanks guys....

 

Flue flags were not considered ..
Well, they should be! The Honda squeezed the Audi, he was already with the left wheels almost on the grass, nowhere else to go. When normally getting overtaken, you are allowed to defend (change line) once. Under blue flag you are not allowed, you need to keep the same racing line, and also you are allowed to keep the same pace (braking/turning points, etc). Some people expect you to get out of the way and flash you insistently, but that’s another topic - it’s not this case. Use the mirrors, keep the line/pace, but don’t cross them as they are expected to try overtaking you. This is self-inflicted pit-maneuver, not Audi’s fault.

 

Well, this doesn't look like a deliberate action at all to me - more like the Honda is completely unaware what's going on around him and just blindly follows the racing line. As such, there are very few situations where the oblivious driver ist not at fault...

 

Surely, it doesn’t look like anything intentional. Like you said, the Honda just goes wide to prepare for the long right over crest, but without paying attention that the Audi is on the exterior. It’s really not paying attention, or having less online experience. There were cases where drivers ahead followed the radar and, because of the high ping/latency, the car behind seemed to be a bit more behind that it really was, and the same thing happened.
I’m not saying this was “dirty”/intentional, but still the culprit is with the Honda driver.

 

Hi folks,

I would like to hear your opinion on 2 incidents. Me in the BMW.



Thanks
Stefan

 

Those cameras don't help a lot. just get the chase cam or the cockpit cam. and leave it there. changing cams dont help if u want "help".

Both are his mistakes. but in the first one u should have been aware of the incoming divebomb and avoid it by opening the corner instead of turning in as if nothing was happening.

And by the look of the behavor he is having, u probably have been blocking him for a whille now and he lost pacience.
Or he is just another of those who lack the brains to race other humans.

There are a few of those in ACC unffortunally. today in 3 races in a row in the fcking straight people turn into me when im passing them. i even saved the replays but are use to nothing :/

And once again . with u changing cams and choosing really bad cam angles to ask for opinions looks more that u trying to "hide" something than to understand something

 

First incident was the Audi's fault, that late of a move isn't going to work but I doubt he was even meaning to make a move, probably just misjudged his braking zone. 2nd one is hard to tell with the constant camera switching. I'd blame that more on you, as you had to go to the grass to even attempt to get an overlap on him into the brake zone. From what i can tell you barely had a fender alongside him, and typically you'd want your nose to be up alongside the other driver's door in terms of overlap to justify moves like that, especially considering netcode and all the other downsides of racing online vs IRL.

Also, in terms of race craft, that outside move isnt nearly the best way to approach the situation, as you're going to be outside, off camber for a double left hander. You're much better off trying to lift and brake early for a straight exit to try an over under move after the first left hander

 

1st one was a classic dive bomb. You could have done yourself a favor by opening up and letting him run wide, maybe even off track and getting the switchback avoiding the contact at all. You didn't have to, but that way you could have avoided the OBWP.

2nd one is difficult to decide with these camera angles and fast switching. As stated, use cockpit view and chase cam. start 3 to 5s before it's even get critical. If you want to help get an objective judgement, show opponents view (cockpit + chase cam) also and do not say which car was driven by yourself. So no bias is going to influence. Obviously hide HUD in replay to not give away any names, again for avoiding bias influence.
For what I've seen in that video I would say you had a slight overlap, but on the outside. This is never a good position. Either you are on the inside or when you are on the outside you should be same height or even in front to claim your spot. You had a very weak position there and yes, it wasn't ok by the opponent to squeeze you off track, maybe he didn't see you or knew you were still on his right side with a little overlap and maybe he thought he has no chance, back off or you'll end up off track...
Well, backing off would have been the better option. No matter if you had the run on him from Tosa to Piratella or he had a run on you.

 

Regarding the 2nd incident. This one is a bit more complex. Technically, It's still the Ferrari at fault, but there are some factors at play that cause their mistake.

The corner up next does essentially only have 1 line and will lose you a ton of speed when taking it side by side. I think this is what gives the Ferrari the pressure to open up the corner for themselves, even though they are unsure if the right side is clear.
Expectations really come into play in this case, as you are not only racing the Ferrari. You are trying to be as fast as possible compared the other cars on track too. Given this position in this case, you would come out best by giving the Ferrari a little space so the time lost for both cars in the next complex is a lot less.
I think the pressure to be as fast as possible there caused the mistake of the Ferrari in the end.

 

The second one you had a clear overlap before the braking zone so the Ferrari should have left you space.
You were never going to gain anything by being there so it would have been better to follow him through, none the less it's his fault.

 

1: Audi at fault, everyone agrees

2: Ferrari at fault. You were already next to him.
I don't understand why people are saying your position wouldn't help you there.
You were side by side so he will have to take a tighter line -> exit speed will be lower than usual.
If you lift a bit earlier and go for exit speed - in combination with your wider line - you can really benefit from this action going to Acque Minerali.

 

Its hard to tell on this replay angles and cams and so much switching.

And im not sure if the guy posting this last video even saw any of the answers lol ..

 

Finally I have something to post, even though I know the answer (IMO)

Spa at night tonight, and this guy is coming up behind me (Porsche) in a Lamborghini, I see him in my mirror and I don't think hes going to make the turn, so I take it wide, he makes it sort of but loses it, bounces off me, and crashes.

The denouement, he then says "Bye Lomino" and kicks me from the server. Annoying because I had a decent finish lined up with only a couple minutes to go despite starting in the back.