Motion simulator gs-105

imho, if you go only 2DOF, the wheel doesn't need to move with the seat, but if you go 2DOF + traction loss, then it should move with the seat / frame.

 

Urgg, the ever ending Full frame VS seat mover and toss in the screen moving debate while were at it. No not a simple little topic, so lets cover it all. lol


For Starters lets get the facts settled, Im on a DIY 3dof seat mover on Static Triple 43's....No VR for me.....yet.
Tim is on a Commercial built Geko and im not too sure what he's using for screen's/HMD. edit turns out he's also on triples with non moving screens.


Lets also get a fact out of the way right now, Motion doesn't tend to make the general Sim Racer "Faster per say" Sure you can run a really weak profile that might not toss you around in the seat very much and might give you a Tickle of what a Real Diver feels like in a Car, but lets be honest thats lame. Why have motion and not get tossed around at least some in comparison to IRL. Some will now claim that you really shouldn't have that much motion going on while racing(pending the class of cars), While i will somewhat agree to that statement, I will also disagree due to the increasing amount of On board video's I see that have the driver's head/arms and whole body being tossed about in the seat. Sure in a Street cars its not Bone Chattering Oscillations like in a F1 car or a Highly dampened Race car, but even a Basic Street car has a working suspension that shine through in motion with a proper profile.


I realized after half typing this your main question was between Motion and VR, well as stated im still a 100% VR virgin so cant really comment on that fact, I could see how a User of both tech's wouldn't want to give up either. Motion is the same mentality of someone's whos been Bitten by the VR Bug, the statements like (I will never go back to 2d racing again ((Ill never go back to Static racing again)), or I have sold my triples and will never play in 2d again ((Ive added Traction loss table and cant race/drift without it now)), or Its the greatest thing since sliced ((X10 with motion lol)) all the same sentiments can be said for motion as VR.....When someone really starts to understand the motion and how it react's to the driver's inputs...how to counteract the motion and use it to your advantage ect ect ect

I fully understand that VR is the future for Sim racing, but the fact remains the headsets out right now, lack a bit in the quality dept and I personally am happy waiting for the next rendition, Pascal is great and all, but im more than happy to wait until my return on $$ for GPU's is a bit better. 980ti's to 1080's doesn't seem feasible and in all honesty it probably wouldn't gain all that much with my 6600 which im being told is a partial bottleneck with the 1080's.

Knowing a few VR+motion guys in my group of friends has provided me with some insight into the quirks and quams with motion and VR. (sensor placement, osculation from motion, eye position wonder ect ect ect) One thing would be the general consensus of needing to have a Very Fine tuned profile with the amount of motion refined down most of the time to match the On screen stuff....further rending the need for Big slushy full frame setups moot, If you cant match what your seeing, you'll have a large disconnect which will lead to the dreaded motion/vr sickness.


Now for the Full Frame VS seat Mover, André57 your question applies here,

Im obviously on the Seat mover camp for many of reasons. Main factor for me when learning the motion hardware and its capabilities was, If you want a Super Fast, Accurate, Efficient setup you were looking at a Shoulder mount seat mover. Full Frame's are moving as the name would say it, the Full Frame. So Pedals/wheel and the driver. Therefor making the entire setup slower and require more amps to operate. After months and months of googling motion and looking at various setups on all sorts of websites from all over the world from DIY to Commercial, Watching video's of certain setups and reading some of the Marketing mumbo jumbo from DIY users and Commercial entity's. I was Once again reaffirmed in my choice of a Seat mover over a Full frame....and Obviously DIY over Commercial. (Hardware and Controllers can be discussed later if need be.)

One large influence would be the CXC guys and their little blip Found here.

http://www.cxcsimulations.com/products/motion-pro/how-it-feels/

Frex Also used to have a Very well thought out explanation with graphics that showed the upper body in motion but Unfortunately the Owner has changed his theory's a bit in the past few years and is now producing a "lift" style full frame setup, which looks great, but isn't my cup of tea.

Next would be the wise words of Advice from the DIY community i found on Xsimulator.net and a few particular user's who were instrumental in my choices. Cost being the Main factor. (i dont have 3-4k to spend on a commercial setup)

Cost does become a factor for many Sim racers, Some have budgets that Far out weight the cost of Some guys Daily driver IRL(15-20k). So in reality Cost is a moot point in the end, If you have the budget for the Cool stuff, Go for it. You only live once and sure as shi* cant take it to the grave with you. DIY 2dof seat mover can be built for under 600$ if you have access to a welder and some mechanical building skills....DIY can also creep into the Thousands if you want AC motor's with Significantly higher lifting capabilities (think more 6dof Stewart platform)

Screen's moving with the Sim being the next factor, but is imo less debatable (rig depending) Obviously if your on a FD401 style rig, having the monitors move with the rig is pretty critical due to the Yaw/360 movement, tho On a typical DIY full frame setup and no 360 capabilities, having the screen moving with the rig is far less important/not required at all, The amount of motion your trying to run can also affect the feeling of wanting the screen moving with the rig, but at that point you have too much motion imo. There's many documented RL racers who comment its not the Big Sloshy movements that are giving the immersive feelings, but rather the quick Sharp, Very accurate motions that in particular a seat mover can do Very well with a finely set profile. (remember your mixing upwards of 5 forces (Pitch, Roll, Heave, Sway, Surge) into 2 motors/axis.


Ill leave it with a quote found on the CXC page.

"I've driven other so-called full-motion (chassis-moving) simulators, Bottom line, they give me nausea. The CXC Motion Pro II is the most realistic simulator I've driven. For me, it's an invaluable training tool."
- Townsend Bell



Sorry for the Novel, but you asked. lol

 

Ah right a factor i didn't cover, Yes agreed, the motion Seat frame being attached to the Base frame will move with the traction loss movement as well as the steering wheel as its also attached to the Base frame.

 

I used to have a seat mover, but it broke down (too much play on the SCN6 acculators), but i still have a GS-4 seat which is a kind of motion too. I have been using the oculus rift since may and never tried my triples again.

The combination GS-4 & VR is a match made in heaven. I really love my my GS-4, but if would definately choose VR over my GS-4 seat or a seat mover.

One very important note: A motionsystem will last for years, but the current state of VR will be outdated in a couple of years.

 

Yeah imagine something like this

 

i think you were referring to me
For simulation I'd keep the motion
For immersion I'd keep the VR
Luckily I get to keep both