The steering, grip front tires, terible?

I also do find the cars sloppy (the cars that were not updated to V10 tires and had no inertia changes from 1.11.x update).
"Sloppy" in terms of wheel/pedal inputs required to keep the car at the grip limit and how quickly the car reacts to inputs compared to RL. And how easy it is to slide the car while providing sloppy inputs yet no consequences (like a hidden holding force keeping you from suddenly spinning that @William Levesque kept referring previously).
Interestingly 1.11.x physics changes (V10 tires and inertia changes?) makes the cars more reactive, more willing to dance according to the inputs, also improved front grip at low speeds, better rotation mid corner and more willing to spin when you make an error. This is exactly what I think was missing.

One of the better examples is Ferrari 458 of what I think is wrong with the old/previous physics (although there could be other variables non-related to 1.11.x physics changes):

Compared to above video 458 in AC seems very "sloppy" with understeery front instead of pointy as in video.

I think we will have to wait for the cars to be updated to latest physics before judging them.

 

Yeah that's just not the right approach for me, sorry. There's little motivation for me to try it out - I don't see a problem in car handling. He does.
BTW doesn't need to be a video, necessarily. G-Force values vs. RL would also be good. But nothing at all but a suggestion to try something that basically breaks a major part of the simulation really doesn't get me hyped.

If this is the last word (I'll wait for his answer, of course) with no further input then I acknowledge his feelings and go on. I just thought maybe he wanted to attract others to his idea and this way it's going nowhere.

 

@Shakotan
Please could you list some the official cars that you "feel" have the issue you describe? Do you also find GT2/3 cars, LaFerari, Aventador SV, Pagani Hyayra (and some other few which I forget - cars that have updated tire and inertia physics) having this issue?

 

No way Alonso is driving a 458 with default-setup or anything a customer is getting. Increase the front toe to max. (decrease actually, so about -0,1), a bit more negative camber in the front, certainly no TC and track on green. I get a 458 very much like in this video. And he´s likely driving one with more break-balance in the back, because racing-drivers will prefer this and can handle it.
Many roadcars understeer in AC with default, because they are made for the road and straightline-speed, not the track. Inexperienced drivers can handle understeer a lot better than oversteer, so selling tamed understeering Supercars makes sense for me...

 

If I get banned for saying this, then well fine, but I feel it needs to be said. I found the altercation between Stefano and Shakotan earlier in this thread rather shocking to say the least. Here we have a Norwegian version of Ken Block offering advice for free on how he feels the game differs from real life handling. See here for his credentials:



Stefano's reaction was completely overboard for what was being said, yet somehow his response gets a load of likes from many people 'because Stefano'. Guys next time have a little think before you approve of a post. I don't think Stefano knew at first who Shakotan is, but even after he found out his reaction continued in an extremely unproductive and frankly immature way.

If I was the dev getting feedback from someone with Shakotan's credentials, i would be absolutely ecstatic and probably invite to fly him to the office to discuss and experiment to try improve the driving experience. This is exactly what RaceRoom have done with real world drivers, eg Kelvin van der Linde. The results were really amazing and the difference is night and day eg: DTM 13 is how all the cars used to drive (really floaty feeling in the rear), and the current generation couldn't be more different and feel absolutely fantastic.

So Stefano if you're reading this, before you take out your banstick on me, just consider what you stand to lose by taking on board some well thought out constructive criticism from someone who actually knows how a car feels under and over the limit. Perhaps at worst you waste a bit of time, but you stand to improve your game by leaps and bounds, surely that's worth a lot?

 

I believe there's a grey area between Stefano and Fredrik's posts that we could focus on.
A physics model is designed to handle a range of possible behavours. Try to imagine them on a 1 to 10 spectrum. Let's say Fredrick found room for improvement on the 7º degree of the spectrum. In other words, "Current model succesfully recreates all situations, except this one".
From a technical standpoint, it is wrong to manipulate data in order to archieve a desired result. It's like you had a flight simulator and went "Ok, so my glider plane doesn't glide quite right, let's reduce air pressure". I can understand that Stefano is mad at that, because it's like spreading bad science.
HOWEVER, Fredrick did not tweak the data to improve it. He wanted to graphically demonstrate that Kunos's model could be rethinked to recreate a specific behaviour, which he tried to create by consciously manipulating physics "wrongly".

All in all, it's like patching a shoe with tape and going to Nike saying "look, I've made your shoes more resistant". The catch is to forget the tape, to LOOK BEYOND IT: maybe that customer is right beyond his home-made effort to demostrate it.

 

Exactly, and from what I saw, Fredrik was not saying 'Hey this is wrong but I know how to fix it'. It was more 'Hey this feels wrong and when I modify x and y it starts feeling better but has other negative effects so it's not the solution, but can we investigate further?'

 

You are missing the point, understeer is just the result of the underlying issue. Its about car reactions to the small inputs and how quickly the car changes the direction, how fast weight shifts, how the car rotates. If you have driven in 1.11 updated hyayra, aventador, laferrari or other updated cars you should know what I am trying to tell here.

Also see below post by Aristotelis about 1.11 physics update (V10 tires and inertia changes):
https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...al-networks-thread.35257/page-327#post-808787

 

The 458 doesn't just understeer, it's quite literally broken frankly. It's way worse than most other cars. The 918 was exhibiting similar behavior on release (not sure now, cant check cause no pedals), same for the LaF has been for a while now, when it was fine on release. It kinda still has a wobbly front end even after the update. It's like the tyres fall flat, very strange feeling.

 

Regarding LaF I think you might notice something else, because I do find it different since 1.11 (more pointy and requires more inputs, rotates better). Tyres fall flat, what do you mean? Is it a FFB thing or something car handling wise? Wobbly might be related to dampers/suspension?

 

The front end stops doing anything past a certain steering angle (nothing exaggerated, normal inputs), mostly noticeable in low-mid speed corners. There's just nothing, it completely dies. Apex speed ends up being laughable, that or you hoon the thing tail out.

 

I tested the 458 italia and 488 GTB before and after the update on the same track with the same results matching real world lap times about perfect. Toe in is about changing reactions of the car and my 458 in AC does about exactly what Alonsos 458 did in the video, just not on default. And maybe you missed my link. Here´s the crucial part: "The factory now has to send a test team to the circuit we chose so that they can optimize the car to get the best performance from it." They duly went to the track, tested for a day, crashed the car, went back to the factory to mend the car, returned, tested and then invited us to drive this "standard" 599."
Do you really believe Alonso is driving a standard-458?

 

458 Italia physics were not updated (it still has V7 tires and I suppose old "inertia"). 488GTB I think has V10 (but not the latest) and no inertia changes, so it feels again different. RL laptimes are irrelevant as its subtleties in car handling (mostly at the grip limit). I have seen plenty of 458 footage that is not driven by Alonso and there are numerous reviews of this car.

As far I understand RL LaF has very sensitive steering in terms how much you need to turn the wheel to increase wheel angle (you start scrubbing the tires very early with relatively low steering angle), this might be what you are experiencing. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

Nah, this isn't it. Using perfectly normal inputs. You can even feel in the wheel that everything goes numb. Oh, and forget about trailbraking, especially in the 458. It's like the front tyres can't deal with any load+slip.

 

I tested about a dozen street-cars on VIR West, which is all about grip limit, because the track is narrow with awful lot of corners but very little choices in personal driving line. I posted some results here which are close to the real world lap times and the others as well.
Just tested the LaFerrari and feels perfect for me without any differences i can tell. Could even drift it a bit like Harris and i´m a bad drifter. Wasn´t driving it for real i have to admit and probably nobody here as well. Maybe some updates went very wrong here. Happend to me once with the FFB of my Accuforce and the next major update fixed it. Trash everything and make a fresh AC-install would be my advice. Some issues don´t get fixed by the integrity check.

 

Could PR-skills be coded to be more linear?

 

sadly no.

I hope you guys will all take a step back as I am.

Forum dynamics means we're faced daily with opinions that we don't agree upon and that can be the result of naive ignorance, bad mood, bad predisposition toward others and it goes both ways, sometimes it can be us in the ignorance/bad mood seat. Being exposed day in and day out to this barrage has the inevitable effect to literally ruin our lives like a cancer slowing eating us up piece after piece.

Yesterday morning I was having what was supposed to be a relaxing breakfast here in a lovely cafe' at the center of Den Haag with my wife.. and after 15-20 mins I started to feel this uncontrollable urge to reach for my phone and log in the forum to check on the evolution of the flame in this thread. It all feels so stupid now, yet it was the #1 priority yesterday... don't say a word to my wife, stare at the phone, think about a comeback while sitting in the tram on the way home.. it's simply pathetic.

This is not healthy for anybody, it should be an hobby and fun for you, a job for me but still somehow fun.. it's a game afterall isn't it? Once again I look at myself and I see the equivalent of a drug junkie.. I wake up in the morning and the first thing I do is reach for my laptop and go check what is going on with Assetto Corsa.. it has been my life for the past 5 years but it's time for this junkie to get to rehab , and start living a "normal" life like everybody else where AC is just what I do for a living and not the living itself.

Yes it's true, we have and had our dose of genuine idiots that have been making AC-bashing their primary reason of existence.. still by treating every single person who tries to approach this place with the same violence we rightly use with those guys isn't fair at all... easy to say, super hard to do as we all know... when the anger demon strikes there is no place to hide and it's like a spiral that can only end up in one way.

It's funny how the desire to interact with you to improve what we are doing is now been described around as inability to take criticism, very saddening but I can't blame anybody but me for this... and I totally understand those who now think so, I'd probably think the same reading those things.

I simply don't have the accommodating nature necessary for a constant exposure to the wildness of the internet. So yeah, my rehab will be stay away from here and all of you.. it's going to be hard but it needs to be done.

 

...well said

 

Well its good you put so much effort in your Project and surely if there are flaws discovered it would be the best to have someone which fully understand the physics behind the engine to give you accurate technical information so you can really make something of it, overall the guy got you on the wrong foot and even if you are right it is obvious and apparent that the conversation ended in an incostructive rant with ban threats. My humble advice is to check out some of that good smelling dutch flavours we all know about, it can really change the point of view in a gridlocked conversation. Maybe you will get a complain including some useful data for you to check, the day has not yet come apparently. By the way keep up the good work the simulation is just so much fun, and there will never be an end improving the driving model or physics, so things can only get better. Love to you all