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2019 Cars and Tracks BOP Discussion

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by redlinemotorsport.co.uk, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. Echo_29

    Echo_29 Hardcore Simmer

    Could someone remind me what tracks are in what BOP groups?
    I know Silverstone/Nurburgring is in a group, Spa has its own? etc
     
  2. Psit

    Psit Alien

    Category A: Monza
    Category B: Paul Ricard, Spa, Barcelona
    Category C: Nurburgring, Silverstone
    Category D: Brands Hatch, Budapest, Misano, Zandvoort, Zolder
     
    Echo_29 and Salvatore Amato like this.
  3. eRacer212

    eRacer212 Racer

    I'm I the only one that finds this wording confusing? I don't want to be a Joe Pesci here but... ... ... funny how? What you mean with 'funny'? You mean funny like a joke? You mean funny like a f*** clown? what do you mean with 'funny'?

    When you say 'funny' you mean 'fun', right? Because the word 'funny' means 'entertaining' but also means weird, bizarre, strange, odd, peculiar, rare. That's the 'beauty' of english, you can actually say the opposite of what you intend (unintentionally).

    So what you mean is that the Ferrari is 'more fun' to drive? He's a big boy, let him speak... funny how?



    (Am I the only one who finds this post... funny?)
    :p
     
    gcx and Salvatore Amato like this.
  4. Salvatore Amato

    Salvatore Amato Simracer

    lol
    yes I mean fun. more entertaining.
     
    eRacer212 likes this.
  5. PLebre

    PLebre Hardcore Simmer

    First version of chassis flex.
    It that things can change next version, again.

    I think a fast guy in a NSX can win against me in a 911 evo.;)
     
  6. Salvatore Amato

    Salvatore Amato Simracer

    obviously but do the opposite and can give you 1 lap perhaps. it doesn't matter
     
  7. PLebre

    PLebre Hardcore Simmer

    I mean that between developing stages don't make sense to fine tuning the BOP.
    I believe that ones things settle down, they will have more time to do the final adjustments.
     
  8. eRacer212

    eRacer212 Racer

    You are right, the BOP is incorrect. For example, the Jaguar is almost 2 seconds slower than the Audi evo. The Audi, Porsche and Lambo evo 2019 are definitely OP compared to the rest of the cars. These vehicles should be similar in performance, at least the ones in the same season 2019, but they aren't. And that is against the spirit of GT3 where the difference is the driver, this competition has one of the best BOP in the world.
    Me smashing the AI with the AUDI evo and, but not being able to catch up with the Mclaren, that is weird. The difference is the car, not the driver. The difference of performance shouldn't be so pronounced.
     
  9. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    Out of interest are you looking at the AI pace here?
     
  10. eRacer212

    eRacer212 Racer

    What I describe is my own experience, of course someone else will tell you a different story. And I haven't even setup the cars properly.
    I should upload a video though.

    Spa, same exact conditions in quick race.
    The Jaguar was at the same pace as the AI (90) and I had close racing and battles, it was fun, I loved it.
    Then I took the Audi EVO... and I left the AI for the dust. 4.5 seconds advantage. It is also clearly faster in the straights, top speed is higher (in Spa).
    The difference is just too much. Not saying that they have to nerf cars, just give a bit more power to the weak ones. What makes the difference in GT3 is not the cars, but the drivers. The cars have a very similar performance IRL.
    In this case, the Jag is 2018 and the Audi evo is 2019. Still... 4.5 seconds difference just out of the garage is a lot. The aston 2019 is (in my hands) 2 seconds slower.

    I'm not particularly fast (probably because I don't try harder?). I do 2:25 in Spa with the Aston, is so estable that makes me fall asleep and I can do the laundry at the same time.
    I do the same with the Audi and I get a 2:23, while I'm cooking tomato sauce in the kitchen.

    That same car, the Aston, is in real life 4th position in the silver cup, ahead of the Audi of Phoenix Racing, for example.
    But... the Audi is faster, isn't it? ... Noooo it isn't :p In real life they have similar performance.
    Why? Because the drivers make the difference, that is the spirit of the GT3 and modern Balance of Performance.
    In my modest opinion, Kunos should have a look to the BOP, it's simply not right.

    But again, that is in my inexperienced (and busy) hands.

    ps: the opinion of an alien is worth as much as anyone's... but aliens would do 2:19 in spa with a f*** renault clio. That is why we call you aliens. If you don't feel much of a difference is because you are too good to feel the difference, perhaps?
     
    undercross likes this.
  11. Mach77

    Mach77 Racer

    from an experienced point of view, the GT3 does have similar pace in general. but, they all have their strong points in different places. some has insane top speeds, some massive accelerations, some have the best grip, the best reactivity, etc.

    for example, the AMG GT3 has an insane acceleration, but one of the slowest top speed in the field(IRL).
    the Audi has one of the best grip in corner, but suffers from slight instability.
    the 488 has great grip, but suffers from the low power of the engine.
    same for the NSX Evo.
    the Jaguar suffers from lack of grip due to its old aero design.
    the 911 has insane acceleration and grip, but has low top speed due to the little diffuser it has.

    every car has strong and weak points. but in ACC, it does seem that some cars are way stronger than others. go to Monza and almost everyone picks the AMG.
    go to any other track and you see mostly Porsche, Ferrari, Audi, Aston and McLaren. very few people takes the BMW, the Bentley, the Nissan, the AMG(on most tracks), or the NSX Evo(which I use and I'm generally 1-2 seconds off pace with a big amount of high speed understeer even tho most of the aero balance is at the front).
    even if the cars should be close in performance, I think that, apart from the Porsche that flies off in the sunset on most tracks and the AMG that has a very high top speed(it like the big wing almost doesn't have any drag at all), the BoP is quite good and in CP races, you can get all cars within a second or 2 if you're fast enough
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  12. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    I’m thinking it’s more the AI’s skill variation is maybe too high causing the disparity.

    2:25 is way of the pace, I’d say the Aston feels stable as it’s nowhere near being pushed at that pace.

    Looking at the list from our hotlap server the times were:

    Merc: 2:16.983!
    Mclaren 2:17.3
    BMW 2:17.4
    Ferrari 2:17.6
    Audi Evo 2:17.8
    Porsche GT3 R 2:17.8
    Lambo Evo 2:18.3

    Of course I don’t know the conditions you had nor remember the hot lap servers, was dry, day time and optimum.

    That’s actually the exact top 7 cars in the list and I’d say a fair representation of driver skill in that order give it take some variables. Not a single double up in the top 7 car wise and top 6 separated by less then a second.

    First Vantage in the list had a 2:19.7, I’d say one of the top guys would take a fair bit of time from that.
     
  13. CheatingTJ

    CheatingTJ Rookie

    If you're doing 2.25 in Spa and 2.23 with another car, I'd say your particular driving style suits the Audi better. It's not that the BOP is wrong, it's just that you're not pushing the cars enough.
    Each driver has it's own driving style that can (or not) suit a specific car and that's because every car has it's own characteristics (better turn in on slow corners... less understeer on fast corners... etc.).

    There's only one way to find out if the BOP is wrong, since even aliens have a driving style that suit one particular car better... and it is to get the fastests guys with each car (fastest guy with the Audi, fastest with the Merc, fastest with the NSX, etc.) and let them post their best possible times. That's when a laptime leaderboard divided by cars for each track would come in hand. If a particular car is always on top of the board on each track, then we would know the BOP is wrong and in favor of that car (unless if that's happening IRL too).

    Personaly I think the BOP is right... and thats because you don't see the same car winning races on each track over and over again. Since each car has it's own characteristics, those can be better for a particular track. If you take the Porsche and have a run at SPA, it's not going to do great, but put it at Zandvoort and it's going to smash the competition, because it's handling characteristics match the track. The Audi would be the opposite. It doesnt like bumps and it has very good top speed... so it's going match SPA... but not Zandvoort. Even the NSX will be close to the leaders in certain tracks if the driver knows what he is doing.
     
  14. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    Id have to say the Mclaren is pretty darn speedy in the current build, running a league race yesterday at Nurburgring me and a guy in the Mclaren were both able to do 1:53.2's in the race. Our regular quick guy in the Merc didnt race but he has been close to fastest every round in that. There have been races where the Ferrari was very much on lead pace and prior to latest update the 2019 911 was generally about .5 off on at any high speed circuits. The slower tighter ones it was always good at like Zandvoort, Misano, Nurburgring and Brands.

    Maybe now at Monza, Paul Ricard and Spa its quicker but it sure wasnt in earlier builds. Maybe the Ferrari has lost something but clearly the Mclaren has been very quick all season, as has the Merc.
     
  15. Yup. Pretty much agree with that statement. I've seen people destroy me in the McLaren 720S while I'm almost 2 seconds slower driving that car instead of my go-to Lamborghini. It really depends on your driving style and your preferences on car handling. And that's the beauty of it imo. Sure, one car is faster than the other ocasionally (AMG @ Monza for example). But generally speaking I am always impressed with how close these cars with sometimes completely different concepts can race each other that closely.
     
  16. Outright pace over one lap is a dead already beat horse. We know what cars are fastest where, and it's not by a lot, a few tenths over one lap.

    The beauty of this sim is races longer than 3hrs, of which we have not seen yet. No Competition servers with that format, longest we've seen is 2hrs. Ppl barely have time for a 1hr competition race in the US, 15 drivers sign up (on 2 fukcing servers, why just leave one so we get more ppl), and 8 finish.

    BOP for all cars is fine, more refinement in the setup department to reduce exploits. Continuous improvements of the tires, chassis flex, aero etc. That's what I care about. In a 3hr race, that starts with a green track and at night with maybe 2x weather and time, I dont give a **** about your one lap pace. In a race with 80+ drivers you're not turning hot laps no more.

    Also respectfully when you' precisely 7 seconds off pace you cant really be talking about BOP. On Spa, per the above example, I've seen almost all cars do 2:16s in the right hands with the exception of the Honda NSX and Aston both in the 2:17s (talking about 2019, Jaguar is known to have horrid bop/engine limiter here). There are no problems in BOP, there are just cars that suit you better so it seems they're faster. If a car is easier to drive at a particular track, or it suits your driving style better it seems faster because it's easier to stay at your limit.

    13 pages...
     
    Cucumber_86 and SellerieMitDip like this.
  17. eRacer212

    eRacer212 Racer

    I constantly read about the driving style in this forum, and I get it, this is important and it matters. But there has to be a point where the 'driving style' is not enough to justify car over performance when compared to another car, considering they should be similar in performance (not handling, not gearing, not drag coefficient, just in final output performance).


    Also, something I find contradictory is the bipolar Gollum-like disorder in this game, between being a game and being a simulator. And it goes basically like this:

    3m2v0h.jpg


    I like GT3 races, should I play this videogame? Sure, this is the official videogame of the GT3 series, come and join!


    There is no documentation in game, where is all the info? I’m sorry, this is a simulator, read the forum.


    mmmm…. ok... If this is a simulator, where is the safety car? Oh, sorry that is not necessary, this is just a videogame.


    shoot... ok, If is a videogame, why do you have puncture in tyres, chassis flex and aero balance depending of fuel load? Because is a simulator, don’t you listen?

    Ok, if is a simulator, why don’t we have player change to simulate 3 or 6 hours online races? …because is a videogame!

    Hold on a second, if this is a videogame, why don’t we have a decent career mode, like in basically any other game? You are not listening, you don’t need that, this is a simulator.

    Ok, if is a simulator, why the cars are so different in performance? You don’t get it, this is a videogame!


    And so on…

    And so on…

    And so on…


    In top of this, you have a roughly 70% of the community, who are hardcore simracers and have no problem with any of this because they are used to it. Plus a 30% (take the numbers with a pinch of salt) that comes from actual videogames because this is the GT3 videogame, and we are witnessing this Gollum act every day, and when we point at the weak points there is always that explanation... driving style...;)

    The problem is not the current trend in game developing of rushing products and releasing them unfinished… no… the problem is our driving style. C’mon, you have to appreciate the irony of this… :D

    Not that I want to criticize anyone posting here, just having a respectful and healthy conversation.

    I’m going to say something that you all may hate, but please don’t hate me for it… IMO GT Sport has a more equitable BoP than ACC (momentarily). All you are saying about the BoP here, I would accept it there, because they are, in some way, the same car from design. It’s a copy/paste, mass production like, virtual car designing. The difference in performance in ACC is definitely palpable.

    Anyways, as always, these are just opinions and we don’t have to agree. I keep watching the conversation. I always learn from what you guys share here.

    Then tell that person pointing a gun to your head that you don't want to be forced to keep reading.
    C'mon, this is better than the newspaper, so far I'm enjoying my the coffee time. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  18. TRIAS

    TRIAS Racer

    Here is my 2 cents.
    1st. Person who does 2.23 on Spa should work on his technique before commenting on BOP (sorry bud, but you are so slow and no one will take your words seriously)
    2nd. We need global ladder where all results, for each track at 26'C (I believe it is ideal terms in original AC), at best grip, no wind, will be visible through regular web browser. Then we will have educated guess on which car is OP on which track.
    P.S. Audi Evo (high 1.48 ish) at Monza is hopelessly slower then Lambo or Mercedes (which are easily at low 1.47).
     
  19. Salvatore Amato

    Salvatore Amato Simracer

    honestly, it's not that you should have the same pace with all cars. Because you could just be slower with front engines for instance.
     
    eRacer212 likes this.
  20. eRacer212

    eRacer212 Racer

    That is very disrespectful, I don't judge you because anything related to you, I simply don't judge anyone, period.
    If you cannot respect what I say because my time limitations...
    I'm a father working 14 hours a day, monday to friday, and I don't have the time to practice and improve (only race a couple of hours saturday and sunday)
    ...then you have a problem, not me. I still respect you, even if I don't have the slightest idea of who you are.

    If I tell you the ranking that I reached in GT Sport, perhaps that would make you respect more what I say?
    one of the fastest drivers in Kent for a whole season, also involved in production with my own company in partnership with Sony
    Probably, but ain't gonna happen anyway, because is not the point, is it?

    What you say is even more ridiculous the other way around, if my time in Spa is 1:19 I suddenly grow credibility...? Is that the way it works? I didn't know seconds entitle me to have an opinion... that wasn't in the documentation of the game... oh... I forgot... It's a simulator... LOL

    Now seriously, if you cannot handle the opinions of others, or you are not capable of respecting what they say, why do you even bother writing in a forum?
     
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