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AI wet weather racing?!

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by MsportDAN, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. MsportDAN

    MsportDAN Alien

    i do know its not out yet..


    Im going to say this in regards to the sims out there that dont do this right and maybe just maybe i hope this sim will have a working ai in the wet?..

    So Ai pit cleverly for wet tyres.
    They start on a correct tyre.
    They have NOT got super grip in the rain or dry on either wrong tyre.
    They do get affected by aquaplaning.

    Its 2018 its about time someone gets this right as so far no sim actually has. I will be buying this as i do like AC. So please please get this right this time.

    I'm not trying to be harsh here or anything else, but i so dam want to race offline in a sim that can properly do wet weather and all its dilemnas in racing!!

    I trust in kunos to achieve this, as no one has of yet!
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
    Stepy likes this.

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  3. plaid

    plaid Alien

    That and the problems in endurance races with the AI are also flaws that ruin (parts of) of PCars2 for me or a least drasticly reduces its features offline.

    However I could live without rain entirely and Im more worried about the AI in endurance races, cause it appears incredibly difficult to let the AI overlap other cars in the same manner as a human. Also efficent pitstrategies.
    Not sure if you can do that even with a whole team of talented coders.Anyway its nice that they try and maybe they will succeed.
     
    Stepy and MsportDAN like this.
  4. MsportDAN

    MsportDAN Alien

    yeah i agree..
     
  5. Lord Kunos

    Lord Kunos His master's voice. Staff Member KS Dev Team

    of the 4 points I would say the last 2 are automatically taken care by the way AI drive "full physics" cars in AC(C) .. they will have to deal with the same problems the human has, there is no way around it.

    Point 2 shouldn't be that hard for a game with limited combinations of compounds/tracks such as ACC.

    Point 1 is the hardest and most debatable, hard to define "cleverly" when it comes to decide when it's the best time to switch tyres.. most humans don't know that and often just copy each other.

    at the end the answer is... time will tell.. but however it goes it's going to be a cool challenge.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
    Poloman, mESCx, martcerv and 19 others like this.
  6. myimac

    myimac Alien

    (Shy face) If I can ask for one thing it would be that the AI keep the same ability as recently introduced to make some mistakes. Also with difficult conditions it might become visually weird to see the AI weaving away crazily but catching control as they have super speed reactions. Maybe if they get a small delay to their reaction time to be in line with elite drivers (I think most elite drivers score very low latency on their reaction time) but it seems that AI are able to resolve that equation slightly too quick.

    Don’t know if I made any sense :) if not ignore me Lord Kunos....

    Also can I say it is refreshing to see the devs interaction on such an early timeline. I understand the normal reluctance to say something is in until it’s final but what is nice is you guys are being quite open about a lot of thought processes. Saying that it is always nice to have some mystery... if not we couldn’t wildly guess on the forums and while away the hours :p
     
    pippo10 and MsportDAN like this.
  7. Lord Kunos

    Lord Kunos His master's voice. Staff Member KS Dev Team

    I have no plans to ignore you :D. But sadly that little paragraph you wrote is something I've been trying to achieve (among other things) for the last 4-5 years :p so ya.. it would be nice to get it, but it's hard and in this job there is no guarantee to get something to work just by spending time on it and sadly the only thing I can promise is that I'll be spending time on it ... hopefully it'll be a clear step above of what we have in AC, but as I said above.. only time will tell.
     
    Ch4rL1E, mESCx, Dookie and 8 others like this.
  8. myimac

    myimac Alien

    The AI got insanely improved along the way by your work. If anybody can do it you can, unfortunately as you said:

    time x effort does not equal improvement

    Saying that you looking at it means that you will have a chance to make things even better :) so now we have to hope for a little eureka moment :D and if not this game then soon TM
     
  9. Stepy

    Stepy Racer

    Will the A.I drive with stability driving aid on like in AC ?
     
  10. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    Point 1 is particularly tricky because the rain might come in fast but only last a few minutes and in real life teams at endurance races sometimes bet on staying out on slicks to make their pit strategy work - as has happened most recently at the last Daytona 24. I can only imagine making AI decide "cleverly" which tyres to use in such cases is going to be difficult.

    That brings up one thing... I wonder if ACC will we have some sort of weather forecast. Certainly an important part of race strategy.
     
  11. myimac

    myimac Alien

    Re: weather forecast:
    That’s what I’ve been thinking about too... my bug bear with pcars weather simulation is if you put random weather selection on it really could go anyway with no set idea for you to Predict what could happen. Nowadays the weather guy on a team predicts for the team to allow a guess or in some instances a team in a poor position trying to get a jump on everyone else by staying in or out.

    If ACC can give us some weather feedback to make these guesses then it will be awesome.
     
    Kopiller likes this.
  12. MsportDAN

    MsportDAN Alien

    good points here guys, and thanks LK for getting involved..

    I know point 1 has to be the hardest I'm sure its a challenge. I was thinking how about letting the AI cheat in regards to knowing what the weather is doing. (so they know exactly what laps it will be dry etc etc) but then give all the ai a random parameter that lets them use this knowledge or not. So to appear to give them more human thought.


    that was hard to explain!
     
  13. plaid

    plaid Alien

    Problem with endurance races is Sadly that you Cant "solve" it via Playin Multiplayer, if the ai Cant Händle it. There are maybe some Events by leagues i Guess but you hardly find Those races online - or they are as Long as a Sprint Race.

    Anyway the Limited amount of Tracks is Probably Helpful, the ai dev from Sms seems To try hard To make everything work but with that Amount of Tracks and Layouts its probably a Little bit difficult.
     
  14. pippo10

    pippo10 Hardcore Simmer

    All of this. For years and years I always wished AI would make mistakes as it's pointless continuing the race if you spin out and end up at the back of the grid by 10 or 20 seconds. On AC I can keep going hoping the AI will make a mistake. I love seeing the AI make mistakes in AC, adds to the immersion. It does bug me when that stability control kicks in thoug, it doesn't look natural.
     
  15. mms

    mms Alien

    The issue with allowing/forcing the AI making mistakes is that it will increase the probability of the AI making contact/wrecking the player's car. The majority of people would cry foul, only a few would be fine with that.

    BTW, I think the AI already makes mistakes, just not big ones, the same as I would expect from professional racing drivers.
     
    Mogster and plaid like this.
  16. Winston

    Winston Simracer

    cough cough Microprose Grandprix 4 cough

    On that subject the development of a dry line would be very welcome too
     
    MsportDAN and Stepy like this.
  17. MsportDAN

    MsportDAN Alien

    i think gp4 had its flaws to.
     
  18. Winston

    Winston Simracer

    Yes not perfect by any means, the lack of online racing and too many bugs generally but I think they nailed the AI , rain and tyre combos. They got an awful lot right, particularly game design with full race weekends driver swaps, rain with a drying line , the abilty to save races (not just replays). Even viewing on-track action from thr pit monitor was a nice feature. The more of this they include in acc the better as far as I'm concerned.
     
  19. MsportDAN

    MsportDAN Alien

    was that the ai in that video guys?

    If it is i wont lie I dont see an improvement with the ai. They still leave hairpins wide open (can take 2-3 cars (if bunched) at la source in ac1 - seems the same in this), they get scared when you go near them, and they just seem a bit boring to race against.

    Hopefully it was just set on a very low level, but normally you can tell what strategies the ai can use regardless of level.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
    Stepy likes this.
  20. Gevatter

    Gevatter Alien

    "Pre-Alpha Tech Demo"
     
    Typer likes this.
  21. GRFOCO

    GRFOCO Alien

    pre alpha guys.
    pre alpha tech demo.

    Are we remember ac's tech demo?

    Come on...
     

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