1. Do you need support for Assetto Corsa Competizione? Please use the proper forum below and ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Logs" folder in your c:\users\*youruser*\AppData\Local\AC2\Saved. The "AppData" folder is hidden by default, check "Hidden items" in your Windows view properties. If you report a crash, ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Crashes" folder in the same directory. Do not post "I have the same issue" in an existing thread with a game crash, always open your own thread. Do not PM developers and staff members for personal troubleshooting and support.
  2. As part of our continuous maintenance and improvements to Assetto Corsa Competizione we will be releasing small updates on a regular basis during the esports season which might not go through the usual announcement process detailing the changes until a later version update where these changes will be listed retrospectively.
  3. If ACC doesn't start with an error or the executable is missing, please add your entire Steam directory to the exceptions in your antivirus software, run a Steam integrity check or reinstall the game altogether. Make sure you add the User/Documents/Assetto Corsa Competizione folder to your antivirus/Defender exceptions and exclude it from any file sharing app (GDrive, OneDrive or Dropbox)! The Corsair iCue software is also known to conflict with Input Device initialization, if the game does not start up and you have such devices, please try disabling the iCue software and try again. [file:unknown] [line: 95] secure crt: invalid error is a sign of antivirus interference, while [Pak chunk signing mismatch on chunk] indicates a corrupted installation that requires game file verification.
  4. When reporting an issue with saved games, please always zip and attach your entire User/Documents/Assetto Corsa Competizione/Savegame folder, along with the logs and the crash folder (when reporting related to a crash).

Article: Why Force Feedback In Computer Simulators Does Not Work?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by liakjim, Aug 21, 2017.

  1. vegaguy 5555

    vegaguy 5555 Alien

    I have heard a simular discussion before when I was a kid. I think it was Ford who had their power steering too strong and my dad was complaining about not enough FFB.
     
  2. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Doubt it.

    However, the Fanatec CSL and CSW bases seems to provide very good FFB as well.
    In addition, it might be that less expensive DD options could arrive next year.
    For one, because Fanatec will present their own DD wheel (which however will be priced above the CSW, so if that is out of your reach, then the DD wheel will be, too) and also because Granite Devices (the maker of the SimuCUBE) are adding support for other encoders, which might open simracers to a large market of used servos and therefore might lead to lower servo costs.
    You'd still need the servo control, which – if you build it up yourself – amounts to 600€ if you build it yourself with new parts, but at some it might be feasible to build the whole thing for less then 1000€.
     
  3. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    It's very common that car manufacturers overdo the power steering support. Not only in the early days but also today.

    Same goes for the brake power assist. Some cars are really overly sensitive there.
     
    vegaguy 5555 likes this.
  4. yeah... stop eating, get weaker so the wheel will appear stronger in comparison.

    Seriously tho, you are right, in reality hands get much more punishment for example on kerbs. Sadly, wheel power is a function of what motor you have in your wheel.. nothing can be done via software, is like asking: can you reprogram my 100HP engine to output 500HP? No I can't... you want 500HP you buy a 500HP engine.
     
    Ernie, M Waechter, LChaves and 9 others like this.
  5. ouvert

    ouvert Alien

    you can get really small rim makng the lever shorter thus requiring more strength to move it :) ... wont help with curbs but FFB will feel stronger ...
     
  6. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    As I said above, I don't think it's always the pure force but sometimes just how well the wheel resolves small forces.
    With many gear- or belt-driven wheels, the transmission (do you say it like that?) parts kill some of the smaller effects making you only feel the stronger ones.
    If that is the case, you need to raise the overall force level to feel the smaller effects or amplify the lower forces (which is – apart from the curb effect – what those sliders seem to do).
     
  7. ouvert

    ouvert Alien

    I had problems with AC FFB on my cheapo DFGT, tried every possibel settings, custom LUT, reinstalling, integrity checks, etc ... what helped me was reinstaling again (2x), using new version of FFB clipping app and leaving it to auto .. so it adjust FFB on the fly (and kind of "extend" range of my wheel I guess) .. if I feel car is fine I just set one value that feels right ... I have to use enhanced understeer to feel it (it is too much but better than without it).
    That works for me and in most cars it is enjoyable experience ...

    AMS is basically plug and play with awsome result and R3E requires of fiddeling to ballance all those sliders they have but can be set to relatively natural feeling. .. or to crazy "immersive" nonsense if you preffer it that way, rF2 after setting car multiplier is very good

    I`m not willing to buy DD wheel .. I`ll upgrade to something better when DFGT breaks or when I will have more time to use it (one of my jobs requires me to be 8 - 13hours per day for week or two in car, driving one turn on track or road repeatedly dozen times so I`m either not home or not in a mood to sit behind "toy" wheel :) but it makes me more criticizing about AC as it is only sims with road cars where I can compare .. )
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
    savasef likes this.
  8. Stereo

    Stereo Alien

    Tire forces do drop a bit (5-10%) but the main reason you have a drop in steering wheel force is the pneumatic trail moves quite a bit. Basically you have lateral force multiplied by pneumatic+mechanical trail (it's like a lever, longer trail = higher force), comes down to which parts of the contact patch are giving you grip. And then the amount is up to the suspension geometry - if the car has lots of caster the mechanical trail is high, so losing a few cm of pneumatic trail has a smaller impact (eg. going 10->8cm trail, 20% loss in force), if caster's low, you get stronger understeer loss of force. (eg. 5->3cm trail, 40% loss in force) On a car with no caster you'd find the force actually inverts and an understeering car would tend to go to wheel lock and just understeer harder.
     
    liakjim likes this.
  9. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    The funniest thing here is that you could have problems/high effort to explain strange FFB behaviour during development. Is this a thing?
     
  10. Horus

    Horus Alien

    That is why I use car sims not what I would prefer motorbike sims. Netbike has to be cycled back into production Lord Kunos. Please, pretty PLEASE! :)
     
  11. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Let me quote the Lord, although he said this in a different context (was endurance racing):
    "the niche of a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche.... of a small niche."
    :p
     
  12. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    A moving race car will make your arms/torso shake won't it? If so, that also adds to what we see in youtube videos about the force feedback and the driver looking more alive than in sims. When the race car goes over a bumpier road you'll get up and down shake of the arms, now add the force feedback from the steering and you get something different than what you experience at home. I don't know if motion rigs can replicate the body and arms shake of race cars to the drivers.
     
  13. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Maybe I should let you have a go in my rig. ;)
     
  14. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Alien

    Use a DD-wheel and mount a BK-LFE under your seat and get ready for some abuse; I've had periods where I've had to take time off from racing to let my shoulders recoup and the big BK can knock my VR-HMD askew. :)
     
    Andrew_WOT and Tim Meuris like this.
  15. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    So I gave both the 718 RS Spyder and the 962C (ST) a try, both at Highlands Short since that has the nice cobblestone section (but unfortunately lacks curbs that result in vibrations).
    I set the ffb gain to 1 and then tuned down each car by the ffb multiplier.
    Thus for the 718 RS, the car ffb was set to 100%/8≈13%, for the 962C ST to 59% 100%/1.7≈59%.
    Should mention that maximum force at 100% ffb gain and 100% car ffb would result in around 19 Nm max torque with my current settings.

    The 718 did actually feel quite alright. A bit like I'd expect it from a normal car although from my experience with vintage cars (means mainly 80s cars actually) without power steering, I'd say the SAT was too weak.
    (You don't often hear that when talking about AC, right? :D)
    The cobblestones felt believable, like I remember it from a normal car when driving on such a road. I tried with stiffened springs and pumped up tyres (funnily I was faster with this setup o_O), but the increase in the forces on the cobblestones was pretty low.
    Could be alright, since most of it would be rather expected to go through the butt-sensor rather than the wheel.
    Details like loss of front-end grip were still there, but you have to really listen to the wheel to notice them. It's easy to ignore all of that. However, that would be the case in a real car as well, I think.
    So apart from the rather low SAT, I'd be fine with this.
    Could be car-specific though since the 718 has rather thin tyres, so maybe a modern 718 would be different here. Would be interesting to try.

    The 962C however became a beast in comparison. Should say that my normal settings mean a car ffb in the range of 40-50% and now I really had to fight the car.
    While with the 718, you could easily drive with a single hand that was not really an option on the 962C.
    Hard to tell of course (it's not like I have that much driving time in a real 962C :D), but I'd say that overall the forces were too strong.

    Not trying to criticize, just making a few observations. ;)
     
  16. I swear that posts on FF are getting more ridiculous than posts on guitar forums about tone :D :D :D
     
    Monotelefunken likes this.
  17. kraM1t

    kraM1t Racer

    But EVH got his tone by boiling his strings instead of buying new ones. Also a you need a Variac so the power is lowered to 90 volts so you can get that brownnnnnn sounddddd
     
    Monotelefunken likes this.
  18. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    oh come on, why is my post ridiculous? Just wanted to see what AC would feel like if you remove the ffb multiplier …
    And yes, I do know that it's not meant to be driven like that and I don't think I'll keep it set up like that.
     
  19. iannixxenakis

    iannixxenakis Hardcore Simmer

    I stopped taking the article seriously when he started talking about using a drum machine. It's real drums or no drums at all as far as I'm concerned.
     
  20. Kopiller

    Kopiller Simracer

    But real analog oscillators sounds better than digitally controlled oscillators and.... ups wrong forum
     
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
ACC Gameplay Dust particles too small Jan 20, 2019
ACC Graphics - Tracks and Cars Please add some more particles effects Jan 16, 2019
Suggestions Air Particles Jul 15, 2017
Suggestions Smoke, Particles, and Broken Glass Really Need Improving Oct 8, 2016
Chit Chat Room two questions, dynamic mirrors and particles on the air. Jul 22, 2016
Chit Chat Room Interesting Article - Fake Engine Noise Jun 14, 2016
Chit Chat Room Great article "Assetto Corsa: Are PS4 and Xbox One ready for a true driving simulator?" Jan 22, 2016
Chit Chat Room Interesting article : how top-tier race cars compare Aug 13, 2015
Tracks modding Remove dust particle from track surface, but keep mud chunks, possible? May 30, 2015
Chit Chat Room Interesting article with formula renault 2.0 driver severin austerschmidt May 6, 2015
Physics modding - Cars & Tyres How to change dirt/dust particle color in 1.1? Mar 16, 2015
General modding discussion New particles grass texture Sep 11, 2014
Tracks modding Solved: blender particle system -> screwed up trees in ac editor Aug 8, 2014
Chit Chat Room we are in the design of a force feedback pedals. Jan 20, 2024
ACC PS4/PS5/XB1/XBX/S General Discussions V1.9 Thrustmaster force feedback is coming back strongly Jun 27, 2023

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice