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Assetto Corsa Competizione - RayTracing confirmed?

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Deatroy, Aug 17, 2018.

  1. Speed RacerX

    Speed RacerX Gamer

    @SteelyEyedMissleMan
    Thanks for the explanation. It appears that Ray Tracing, even if UE is pioneering it into their engine, is nothing more then a tech demo for the average PC gamer.
    I cannot see it happening with existing PC hardware. i7 6700k, 7700k, 8700k, 16Gigs of ram, SSD/M.2, z170-370 (soon to add z390) chipset(s) and (insert your video card here).

    Even if it's just certain elements found in the game like puddles, pools of water, parked cars, or other background stationary objects. Once within the scope of view the performance impact would need to be mitigated by some other means...like a counter balance. I'm sure that UE could do it but what's going to be the hardware cutoff point? A ti or titan card?
    I'll be eager to see benchmark demos when they surface though.

    But do we want this now in a racing sim when having enough framerates is more important then IQ?
     
  2. vortex19

    vortex19 Simracer

    The potential for RT is huge but the problem is that many, many gamers are still using pre-1000 series NVIDIA cards (or AMD cards) - see https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey and click on "Video Card Description". Investing a lot of time developing RT for a particular game would appear to be a waste at present because it would only potentially be usable (without destroying framerates) for the tiny percentage of users who will buy the new RTX cards. Even in a few year's time the majority of people will probably still not have a card capable of handling RT in any practical way.
     
  3. chuky

    chuky Alien

    Their demo shows how it can render ambient occlusion fast, but ambient occlusion is a way to fake light bouncing around. It's archaic compared to global illumination. In future games, if we were really going to have brute force global illumination then they wouldn't be showing ambient occlusion in their demo. There will still be tricks in game engines (as there are in the engines used for the demos). I wouldn't expect a big step forward for games just because they'll release another graphics card for Christmas. They found a new buzzword and now everything will claim to be raytraced, and games will require the next API to run so you'll have to buy the next generation of cards. The Arnold demo near the end of the video is pretty cool anyways because the renderer was previously only running on cpu and now they also run on the gpu.

    Another demo of raytracing with the new Quadro RTX 6000 if you're interrested, but it's not as cool.
     
    Deatroy likes this.
  4. Deatroy

    Deatroy Alien

    Yes that was Volta = Titan V for 3000€.
    But Volta had only Tensor Cores.
    It was the first trying.

    Turing has RT and Tensor, so its up to 5x faster and the smallest Turing was handling the demos now. RTX 2070 by the way.

    Gesendet von meinem HTC One mit Tapatalk
     
  5. For those of us that show our age we'll remember the leap that was 3dfx voodoo cards. (read the first section and see the first image here http://vintage3d.org/3dfx1.php#sthash.qoUI1xBU.dpbs). It was a massive visible uptick in rendering.The ground swell happened in days before social media - we all had our group of mates, and whoever got one was the envy of everyone else. I was in my first real job at the time and after seeing one running scrimped and saved for months to get one of those cards. It was a massssiiive difference :

    [​IMG]

    I suspect whatever brings us real time ray tracing will be that evolutionary step - will require some high priced cards, 1 or two absolutely gorgeous AAA games and will start the movement towards it. Like any big leap it will require that early adopter tax and a few brave souls to pull it off.

    Broadly speaking all of the recent years have (just) been incremental %age improvements on frame rates, not a fundamental leap in tech. When we see the leap I suspect it will be like 3dfx over again.
     
    trucidatio, bgil66, Rudski and 3 others like this.
  6. Speed RacerX

    Speed RacerX Gamer

    Ah, the memories.
    I think it was
    VGA to OpenGL to DX
    All which needed a different video card.

    However, I also recall better image quality along with faster frame rates too.
    MS couldn't make use of opengl like they could with DX.
    Didn't ray tracing stem from opengl?
     
  7. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    Let’s not forget Voodoo’s Glide API now.
     
    Psit and Speed RacerX like this.
  8. Before OpenGL was even a twinkle in someones eye. 1979 was when ray tracing came about...

    And the original author/pioneers paper (Turner Whitted) https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=358882
    That same dude 39 years later on Nvidias blog https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2018/08/01/ray-tracing-global-illumination-turner-whitted/

    I'm super excited about the possibility of ACC, or some future mythical AC2 having ray tracing. I'd gladly dump a chunk of change on it. I imagine that Nvidia has no option to get on the gas about getting the hardware there. The crypto wave is over, and people are likely going to be less interested about spending $1k on cards unless they see real, credible improvements...

    I'm trying to set some time aside to go through the full video from Siggraph to understand exactly what RTX is and how close we are. There's a bunch of exciting stuff that says the ground work is being laid to get there. The mind boggles as to what ACC could look like in future with this tech [edit: if of course this is a road they go down]

    Probably way more crashing at the end of straights spending too much time admiring the scenes ;)
     
    Speed RacerX likes this.
  9. .... so I watched the whole Siggraph Nvidia presentation, there is a really good demonstration of how ray tracing looks as compared to traditional graphics.

    If you start around the 37min mark you'll get walked through for 5-10mins each 'layer' of what is possible. Pretty cool watching.
     
    Deatroy likes this.
  10. Speed RacerX

    Speed RacerX Gamer


    At 1:32 "only with a single Multi-GPU". I guess you need to buy more in order to save.

    Yeah, we aren't there yet performance wise to make Ray Tracing a viable option in gaming.
     
  11. MrDeap

    MrDeap Hardcore Simmer

    Apparently Turing perform 6 times better than Pascal, but using raytracing is more than 6 times more taxing than rasterization. :rolleyes:

    If it was only 6 times more taxing, there would be games readily available using it. :D
     
  12. Deatroy

    Deatroy Alien

    Again you forgot it was "only" the Titan V, which is Volta without RT Cores.
    The first trying of nvidia. I named it already 3 times or so in this thread, but i guess most of you dont know this GPU at all?? :oops:
    Its already known that the RTX 2070 is faster or equal than 4x Titan V with Raytracing ON.
    Depends on Demo/Game they show.
    Pascal is even more worse than Volta.
     
  13. Eero

    Eero Simracer

    The idea isn’t to use ray tracing as the only rendering technique, but to combine it with traditional rasterization, basically hybrid rendering, which combines ray tracing with traditional rasterization to exploit the strengths of both technologies. Ray tracing will be used first for things like global illumination, shadows, ambient occlusion and reflections.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  14. Speed RacerX

    Speed RacerX Gamer

    I think we got the notion that ray traced static objects are how it's going to be implemented. However, even so, it still doesn't change the fact that it's inefficient when compared to rasterization.

    But lets take a look at how Gran Turismo Sport use of Global Illumination, shadow, ambient occlusion and reflections.



    This clearly show's how well it can be done by Polyphony Digital (to be clear this is video reflects a foggy day). To be honest I've not seen that level of GI, AO, and reflections in a long time for console game. Again, this is on console not on PC, not on a Turing card, not on a Volta card.

    This is why some are so skeptical about ray tracing unless there are great strides to make it more efficient thus providing better frame rates for starters.

    Edit:
    Here's another time of day
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  15. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    GT does look good. Doesn’t it render replays differently to actual gameplay to make them look much prettier?
     
  16. Speed RacerX

    Speed RacerX Gamer

    Correct it does. But the actual gameplay is not far off from the replay.
    What makes this important is the fact that they were able to improve the aforementioned IQ still using console hardware.
    Another reason is that we need to be honest with ourselves. What's influence the gaming market more games on PC or games on console?
    So what's going to make ray tracing a standard? Turing or Consoles?
    It becomes very clear at this point how the politics of these things play out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
    MrDeap likes this.
  17. Eero

    Eero Simracer

    GT:Sport has a static time of day so they can use very nice pre-computed and baked global illumination.
     
    Freddie Seng and Deatroy like this.
  18. Deatroy

    Deatroy Alien

    Surely most of us would name the Consoles directly, but you see on PC ports that nvidia is pressing its Gameworks Suite over it.
    I am not a fan of Gamesworks as i had AMD GPU long time.
    Next Consoles are coming late, maybe 2020-2021 are the latest reports/rumors.
    Until then there are likely one or two GPU gens out there, after Turing.

    nvidia has so much money and manpower to etablish this like Cuda.
    Even Assetto Corsa got a sponsored track, just look at Highlands and everywhere is nvidia adv...

    Anyway only 6-7h to go :)


    Gesendet von meinem HTC One mit Tapatalk
     
  19. Speed RacerX

    Speed RacerX Gamer

    Very interesting, Nvidia announced that ACC will be using ray tracing.
    This is going to get very interesting for those on potato PCs, last gen HW and AMD users alike.
    :p
     
    mESCx likes this.
  20. gandlers

    gandlers Hardcore Simmer

    So does this mean that kunos have already got their hands on these new cards?
    If so have any of the released screenshots and videos been using this new rtx gpu?
     
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