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BOP Discussion

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by redlinemotorsport.co.uk, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. trasgu

    trasgu Simracer

    Please calm down and respect other people opinions, I don't know why you are so irritated but treating fellow forum users as if they where below you won't get you very far in the forum nor in real life either. The only proper way to know how every car match the others is trying all the cars in the same conditions by the same person. Anything other than that is just a waste of time as it introduces the driver itself into the variables, even one driver can be very good in one and don't get to be conpetitive in another. Giving the fact that you are the one making the claims, then your duty is to show that it has some base instead of being just an unsuported opinion. Support your claims with data, test it yourself and then post all the motec telemetry data so anybody else can do the same in the same conditions and see if there is a correlation between the data of various drivers. Then if you are right, you will have solid evidence of the issue and you will have a right to ask Aris for a rebalance of the cars performance to suit the real life cars performance. Getting irritated with everyone, being on the defensive, and dissmising all the opinions that don't align with yours isn't a constructive attitude, nobody will be interested in participate in the topic in that tone.
    dbr93 and m_box97 like this.
  2. Dafunkdp

    Dafunkdp Gamer

    Thanks Senpai teach me how to deal with people giving opinions without test a thing.

    That's exactly what everyone else is doing. Everyone is on the defence but noone provided actual data or have done some testing (not talking about 3-4 laps looking at the tops peed at the end of a straight) BUT i'm the one attacking? actually i'm the only one that provided some evidence by doing some research/testing but for others is just a NO "it just does not count" :rolleyes: pls guys.
    You should read the previous messages then.

    So dude, i'll repeat myself because seems that reading past posts is a bit hard, Acc Belgium servers are collecting data from races 24/7..exact same conditions every single race...Hundreds and hundred of laps registered...Someone says that those results are invalid just because reasons...what? ook..

    Furthermore, to unlock the full potential of a car, should be driven by someone that actually can drive that car to the limit...so 1 person testing all the cars is not good in any way (unless is a truly alien, or someone that is very sensitive and able to judge) because someone can be very good in a car and very bad in another...of course giving false information...On Acc belgium servers, are rigistered the best times, and since are very populated servers, it is very very likely that , between the reset times of a week, there was a driver very good on the Audi, another very good in a lambo, another in Aston and so on ..and if you see the best times, actually, almost on every track is Porsche 2.0 and the times are not even set by the same person on different tracks. So it is not that one very good Porsche driver put the best lap times everywere and gg. but hey this does not count too right? :rolleyes:

    Motec? COULD be an idea but you really need that when you can clearly see differences in times?...

    I'll repeat myself one last time then i won't respond anymore because i already know the answer....This is the official Blancpain simulator right? so would be nice if it would reflect the real life counterpart no?...if you see results from the Blancpain, the most performing cars should be Lambo,Audi,Amg, even Bentleys on some tracks(last year got pole at Paul ricard with almost 1 sec to the second place)! Atm, after the 1.2 update, at high levels, we see Porsche 2.0, Aston, Audi, nothing more....
    Stupid example but gives the idea.. if in a Soccer videogame, Real Madrid got bad stats meanwhile another average team got pumped up and it is the way to go if you want to compete..you would be happy about that? i don't think so...
    Again i'm not against Kunos in any way because they are doing an amazing job, but maybe what was working pretty well before the update, with the introduction of the new tyre model/chassis flex/aerodinamic maybe something needs to be tweaked to certain cars to reflect , at least "closer", the results from real life.

    Cya all.
  3. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    I am reading this and I still can see that you don’t understand what people are replying to you.
    Those fastest quali laps, and fastest race laps in those short ACC Belgium races all in cold conditions are meaningless because they just show that Porsche is fast car on that one type of conditions configuration, low fuel load and low need of tyre management,
    Of course it doesn’t show that it can be faster but it’s nowhere near being OP,
    People here who know those cars inside out told u how they are and that they are certainly capable of keeping up and can have certain advantages for let’s say normal race times, where 1hr is considered a sprint
    I don’t want to defend that car because it it a bit to good, but that’s just a bit but it’s nowhere near that .5 or 1s per lap quicker, that’s just utter lie,
    And the fact is even tho there are fast Porsche lap times, I see other cars at the top in league’s doing just fine, actually far better than any average driver could do in any car, even the Porsche, I appreciate your opinion and Data you have provided from ACC Belgium and Paulo’s Paul Richard experience but I just wanted to point out why it doesn’t mean that this car is as OP as you say it is because it’s just not true
    m_box97 and dbr93 like this.
  4. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    And if you want to talk about IRL where is team factor, car setup factor, how driver lineups affect car results, how good that team was prepared, strategy over races that we had only one each in season, I mean Porsche won at Monza, should we make then Porsche good at Monza in game, bollocks,
    Outright one lap time in simulator is nowhere nea compareable to IRL results, and btw that car proved many times IRL that in good hands it is an absolute weapon it is now in Acc,
    Still it can be nerfed a bit, again A BIT
  5. Luis Branco

    Luis Branco Alien

    Monza 2019 Race (Endurance) :
    1 Porsche 911 GT3 R
    2 Lamborghini Huracan GT3 EVO
    3 Mercedes-AMG GT3
    4 Mercedes-AMG GT3
    5 Mercedes-AMG GT3​

    Silverstone 2019 Race (Endurance):
    1 Ferrari 488 GT3
    2 Lamborghini Huracan GT3 2019
    3 Audi R8 LMS GT3 2019
    4 Porsche 911 GT3 R
    5 Mercedes-AMG GT3​

    Paul Ricard 2019 Race (Endurance)

    1 Bentley Continental GT3
    2 Ferrari 488 GT3
    3 Lamborghini Huracan GT3 2019
    4 Aston Martin Vantage AMR GT3
    5 Porsche 911 GT3 R

    Spa 2019 Race (Endurance) :
    1 Porsche 911 GT3 R
    2 Porsche 911 GT3 R

    3 Mercedes-AMG GT3
    4 Audi R8 LMS GT3 2019
    5 Porsche 911 GT3 R

    Barcelona 2019 Race (Endurance)
    1 Lamborghini Huracan GT3 2019
    2 Aston Martin Vantage AMR GT3
    3 Bentley Continental GT3
    4 Lamborghini Huracan GT3 2019
    5 Mercedes-AMG GT3​

    Times finished in top 5 in the 2019 Endurance Season (not 2019 standings):
    Porsche: 6
    Mercedes-AMG GT3: 6
    Lamborghini Huracan GT3 EVO: 5
    Bentley Continental GT3: 2
    Ferrari 488 GT3: 2
    Audi R8 LMS GT3 2019: 2
    Aston Martin Vantage AMR GT3: 2

    Porsche didn't race in Sprint Races.
  6. dbr93

    dbr93 Gamer

    I like to see Branco and Malinowski here if i reminds well we had nice battles on tracks :)
    Maciej Malinowski likes this.
  7. ok guys. let's push this on the next level, let's post a screenshot of our statistics page in game. anyway acc Belgium is more than enough for data
  8. only one ferrari and two Bentley competed...
  9. Paolo Muià

    Paolo Muià Rookie

    Sorry but that point of view to me has completely no sense, and I want to try to explain you why...
    We are comparing two cars on a track (PR in this case); where I raced with 488 preparing the car for two weeks, agains't another I did like 2o laps. So Basically we are comparing a tested and re-tested 488 against a "not even near to be good" 911.
    Even if in that lap I have still a couple of theents to take out, we agree that this can mean something or not, but that is not the point.
    The point is that, even with a 0.5 sec of gap (and remind, the 0.5 sec are on the Patrick's pole, not on my 488 time), already allows me to drive the same 488 pace with the Porsche "walking" pratically. That is the real difference.
    Driving the pace Patrick drove on race on the first 45 min with 488 means (and believe me, MEANS), that you have to drive the stint pushing the 488 always to the limit, very near to 100%. Thing, that with Porsche you heaven't. So you will have a lot more room on Porsche where you can "save" your car mantaining a very good pace. All the rest of theories are just fantasy.
    I give you still some data's regarding Paul richard:
    To achieve a "regular" pace on this track with 488, you are forced to do a compromise regarding aero setting and roll bars. I wrote "regular", cause even setting the car to balance the chassis torsion, there's no way to avoid the loss of pace already after 6/7 laps; on specific:
    If you go on low wings, your car will start to slide soon.
    If you go low on roll bars, your car will point the rear soon
    The only thing you can do is to set the car on middle aero (we use 6), and revelant roll bars to compensate torsion, but this, after a couple of laps, make the car worse; better on driving, but slow on pace, cause force you to "anticipate" a lot the slow parts of the track. (I thing you know that). On little words: the loss of time you will have on slow parts of the track will be huge compared to the gain you can have pushing on the fast parts, but doing the opposite, your car will slide or pointing, and that is even worse.
    Porsche's drivers instead, were on low wings (2 wing as a driver say me), on my lap i was on 4 wing.
    What i want to say?
    Surely that thing need test, but what i saw doing 30 min race with porsche (doesn't matter track temp or condition, that means only a different balance), is that I can drive low wing easily on Porsche, and that "gain" i have from that on fast parts, compensate a way too much better what i loose then wearing the car on the slow parts. Even the bars, that was low on the front and stiff on the rear, doesn't make me "anticipate nothing", i only have a worse turning according only to the tire wear, but i have not to modify my braking, or my lines. That are data's.
    Obviously can't say if all that is objective, but surely I can say to you that, atleast on that track, there's absolutely no chance, is absolutely impossible that driving the 488 i'm able to compete with myself on Porsche, and by far too. Q or race believe me, really doesn't matter. :) :)
  10. DBurns

    DBurns Rookie

    clam down guys, have to admit that 911EVO is too OP in v1.2, but dun have to argue on this.
    some players love to "bully" the others with a OP car, some loves to challenge it with a slower car, enjoy the race ok?
  11. I underline every word.
    And I'm sure here everyone is aware of what he said.
    People saying 488 is the best car... never picked it. People saying porsche is ok, could never pick any other car. that's the truth.
  12. Dobermann92

    Dobermann92 Gamer

    People always forget that this game isn't all played by aliens, casual lobbies have more car variety and more diverse winnings. In an alien lobby surely the Porsche is better than any of the other cars (except on Barcelona) and will beat others just because of that fact so no point using any other car if you can drive it the level of consistency mostly aliens have. I'm still more concerned about the NSX being so tricky to drive fast to even catch up with the others.
    Tim Meuris likes this.
  13. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    It may sound stupid but,
    I agree that this beetle of ours it a bit on too fast side, but sometimes the problem can be also that the car we are comparing it to has also **** BoP itself,
    Let’s say it is just a theory and a question?
    How does other cars than 488 compare to that ridiculously quick Porsche, I agree that after 1.2 Porsche got a boost at performance, but why 488 and Merc lost it all of the sudden,
    But yes that @Paolo Muià PR test shows clearly the difference between the two,
    How do other stack up? Are they all like Ferrari or we have also a problem of BoP 488 for example?
  14. ok after 4 days of the testing I came to this conclusions @Aristotelis.

    The ferrari is a lot more funny. A lot less precise. A lot more nervous once the tyres start to drop. I have to to say that the sim is not more difficult, but more funny for sure. I mean, it's a different difficulty.

    I also managed to avoid the mega bump after Silverstone straight (hangar straight?) before the long right turn. I fixed it by rising the bumpstop rigidity a lot.

    I suffer a lot of unpredictable oversteer, if I exit the 5% steering wheel angle at mid corner. Also occasionally understeer. the tyres last perfectly
    I mean, overdriving is finally punished.
    This reminds me the very first version of the lambo in 0.1.
    And that's very cool, because I need to be a lot more precise.

    in the terms of speed, nothing has changed. Consistency dropped because it requires a lot more focus. In full tank it's a lot more nervous. if I try to to trailbrake I'm dead not matter what. and even if I coast a bite too longer it wants to to spin. requires more attention. but I like this.

    so my suggestion is. instead of "fixing the ferrari" as man suggested, make those others more difficult! So that we all can have more fun.

    more power anyway would be very appreciated XD.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  15. I also believe a lot has to do with setup.

    Just drive the Lambo around Spa with the safe setup. The car is so high off the ground that you can easily clip the inside curb of eau rouge (or radillon, idk. The right hand uphill). Use the aggressive setup and you're being slammed off the road.
    Fast setups will more often then not be a little sketchy. That's where the speed comes from. You're driving the car on the limit with a setup that will be on the limit almost all the time if driven right. Imagine this like a road tyre vs a racing slick tyre. The slick has more peak performance with a quite narrow working range while the road tyre is way more forgiving but a lot slower in general.

    So yeah, you can defenitely make a car more difficult to drive by changing the setup. Or by driving a car with the wrong approach. You won't be fast nor safe trying to drive a 1990 Group C car the same way you drive a Clio Cup car. In GT3s it's the same story, way more sublte but still there.
  16. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Alien

    So make other car difficult even if it is not realistic ?
    Ferrari is one of the easiest car to drive even compared to some FR cars.
    It may sound harsh but having oversteer while coasting or trail braking is driver's issue not cars because i have none of them with ferrari infact i make ferrari even more aggressive just so that it can rotate more.
    SellerieMitDip likes this.
  17. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    How much do you think the setup is worth? And how much do you think the difference is at Spa between the Safe and Aggressive setups?
  18. I mean, as Aris already said 80% of the issue sits in front of the screen. Nevertheless, I am 1,5-2 seconds faster on the aggressive setup than the safe setup in Spa.

    When doing a Setup the first thing to do is making you feel comfortable in the car to extract the best out of it you possibly can. That said, a setup can make you significantly faster if you can cope with the drawbacks that come with it (narrow working range).

    IMO the biggest thing still is to be consistent at a decent pace. A world record qualifying lap won't get you far when you bin it on lap 2 in the race, especially in endurance races. Also, I would recommend to test a car, learn the track, the car, reference points and get consistent with the car you have. Only then should you tweak things to get faster. This doesn't include tyre pressures, brake balance, TC or ABS. Those things can and should (imo) be set to optimum after about max. 10 laps of driving (when the tyres are beyond their cliff point and degrading naturally).
  19. schlauchheidl

    schlauchheidl Rookie

    i wonder about the "good tire management " of the ferrari - it doesn t feel special at all - especially in comparisson to the porsche - what enhances the problem is the additional power restriction of the 488

    i already have to take super much speed through the corners to be competetive with other cars which accelerate better - this fact makes things really difficult after a few laps when tires start to fall off and i might lose some traction while accelerating because of nervous rear axle
    Salvatore Amato likes this.
  20. You underestimate my QI so badly sir.
    Read my post again, considering we are human beings...
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