BOP Discussion

Why should it be struggling at high speed?

 

So I have a question and I think this is the appropriate thread to ask

Is 2018 BoP different to 2019 BoP for the cars?

 

its all season related
2018 season has its own bop and 2019 cars, well they arnt here yet its 2018 , bop changes also with the track, but that is more getting into details how it works and is created in 2018 itself, I belive you can experience this BoP in SP
2019 season (also multiplayer) we now have some new cars, cars that are staying, and cars that are being replaced but still are used bu some, they all get their BoP for the new season, new season new BoP for everything, its also track based, oh and IGHC is also a 2019 season so it's BoP is made accordingly to how BoP is created for 2019 season

 

Should be.

 

Yes

 

Well... I said "should be" because while we can expect the BoP to have changed from season to season (plus new cars and circuits added) we don't have insight to the game source data nor do we have access to SRO BoP documents, so I can't really just say "yes".

 

We can check car weight in telemetry at least, I think there are some charts on the form already, to be honest it’s to difficult thing to explain how that works and those that do care and feel the difference track to track well those are probably people that know all that stuff throughout, it’s good to have discussions how that works in practice and compares to real deal

 

Hello guys,
I did some run on jaguar on barcelona and found out it has quite low top speed.
Before i get hate i must clear few things
Yes i changed setup on top of standard aggressive preset

•2 Clicks less rear wing (even tried 3 clicks less than default)
•Zero rear toe
•Front toe reduced from -0.15 to -0.06

Even after all that i'm barely reaching 262 km/h(261 km/h 99% of the time) compared to other cars i drive this is down by atleast 4km/h.

My point is since jag doesn't have good aero shouldn't it have a power/top speed advantage?

 

to get a better handling jag(that includes top speed aswell), you have to reduce the wheel rate(it hates stiff springs) and reduce the preload(120 for that car is too much). 4kph isn't anything big, tbh. but with softer suspension, with a higher rear wing setting, the rear gets more pushed towards the ground. helping it gain a bit of top speed. also works on the V12 Vantage, btw

 

I know it hates stiff wheel rates BUT that won't help much with top speed.
ALSO with softer wheel rates the oscillation have big amplitude.....I can feel it,see it and it definitely affects handling so you can't go too low on wheels rates.
YES i know you can play with dampers for oscillation BUT it is better to get wheel rates sorted out first then play with dampers.

Another thing regarding preload i disagree, in my testing i found out that since this car has good torque the inside wheel spin too much..losing time
so you need good amount of lock so that even at limits the inside wheel barely spins.

Also 4km/h-5km/h is HUGE difference you definitely should be bothered by it.

Edit: If you are suggesting soft setup because i can put down power then don't worry i can put down power before the straight so no problem there.

 

well, your driving style is clearly different than mine because I drive it better with softer springs and softer preload and I do feel that the jag is a bit faster with the settings I use. for me, with 120Nm of preload, I find that it understeer HEAVILY in low corners and while throttling out, it oversteers way more than with a lower preload setting(like around 70Nm). I'm just sharing my experience with the car

 

You described the car quite well.
yes at slow speeds off throttle it has some understeer BUT you can cure it with slow reboud setting.
To my understanding this is how diff works in game->>
First you must check external camera to see the skid marks or even use slow motion with F7 camera to see which wheel is spinning.
in slow corners at nearly 85-90% throttle the inside wheel starts spinning meaning the outside tyre has MORE grip available which isn't being utilised
(This is not taking into account the elevation,bump of the track)
So IMO the preload should be setup in such a way that at highest speed corners the inside tyre barely spin in this way you can get on throttle earlier and utilise outside wheel grip.
You should definitely look external reply i'm getting slow-mid speeds inside tyre spin even at 110-120 Nm preload (again on nearly flat surface)

Edit->> Also never use zero or 1 bumpstop range it takes away quite good amount of low speed grip.

Edit 2->> Also on default setup the brake bias is way towards front, try atleast 63% (i'm currently using 62.4%)
Also trail braking is necessary.

 

While it’s top speed is a bit down which makes sense as it likely has more drag due to less efficient aero what is its low and mid speed acceleration like?

I think it will pull away out of corners and mid speed and then lose a little later due to increased drag.

Don’t think of top speed being the only show of power, look more at the rate of acceleration through the whole run down the straight.

 

How can you win in low-mid speed corners when you hve to compromise grip for top speed ? top speed is down by 4-6 km/h and that is HUGE difference.
The drag is quite high which starts at around 250 km/h so lowering wing is very essential.
BoP for cars that don't have competitive aero should give good power to weight ratio.(it is not my opinion look at aston,rex it is how it works)
Not only it lacks speed but it weigh whopping 1430kg how is that good ?
Now you tell me where is the plus point?
Thanks to it high weight it cannot stop quick(long braking distance relatively speaking)
Due to its weight it cannot change direction quickly PLUS weight affects apex speeds
On straight line it has poor top speed (DESPITE lowering rear wing by 2-3 clicks)and acceleration is quite slow after 250 km/ h and the top speed on straight at barcelona can reach upto 268 km/h.

 

Barcelona is probably the worst track BOP wise for the Jag, it really is 2secs down on most other cars - so doesn't matter what you do, you are going to be slow at Barcelona.
You can't "tune-out" an unfavourable BOP for a car/track combo. It uses the same BOP for Barcelona,Spa, Paul Ricard - so will be equally terrible at those tracks too.

The Jag doesn't have any plus points at Barcelona.

Take it to 2018 Monza, Zolder, Brands Hatch - that is where it shines. possibly even Misano.

 

All that car needs is 5-10 hp at top end to get to those extra km.
Below 7 rear wing the car slide ALOT and my throttle control is not bad at all(just did 2 min flat on old porsche without TC suzuka)
It sounds absurd but actually by giving more power to jag you will be able to run more wing hence you can gain grip plus top speed with just simple solution.
Problem is kunos is not trying to balance things sadly.

 

Sure more power would be nice but that is not how the BOP works in real life or in the sim.
Cars struggle on some tracks and are better on others
The cars are balanced properly if you ask me - go and run the Jag on 2018 Monza where it has more favourable BOP.

 

Cars struggling is totally dependent on BoP.
Why call it balance of performance if car is only good at 2 tracks ?
The solution is very simple just give the car little boost on tracks where it struggles (ex barcelona).
It is never completely a cars fault when BoP is not flexible and considerate enough.
I don't care how it is IRL but since Kunos can change the BoP i think they should use this opportunity to give old struggling cars a boost.
This is how BoP works,help the weak car balance the field and finding balance is never a fixed solution.
Also on barcelona alone jag weighs 1430+ kg ..... still think it is 100% car's fault ?
Decisions lies in devs hands.
Also don't think it has some sort of hidden advantages in race
the car has high load on front meaning front tyres will be consumed quickly, while rear don't have enough grip they will slide even more just after 3-4 laps,
Big V8 isn't really fuel efficient so nothing here as well(plus having over 1.4 tonnes weight on nearly all tracks doesn't help with tyres and fuel economy).

 

Does someone have the link to the 2019 BoP document? I can't find it anymore.

 

BOP is not simply a sim thing, it is how it is in real life. BOP ingame is based on BOP irl.
If you don't care how it is in real life then that's fine, but if you are expecting devs to boost a slow car (or nerf a fast one), then you are missing the point of the sim.
I agree wit you the Jag is slow at Barcelona, but I don't agree with boosting it because it is slow.