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Brakes on street cars

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Bob Peirce, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    I have been driving the Porsche 718 Boxster and I find I need to brake a lot earlier then when I actually go to the track. I've found on my car I have to run track pads. Stock pads can be destroyed in an afternoon. I'm guessing the street cars assume street pads. Is that correct? If so, is there a way to "upgrade" them?

    Out of curiosity I tried a Miata Cup car. If the 718 has to start braking at 200 meters, the Miata can start to brake at 50, maybe less. In my own car I would start to brake around 125-150m. I'd like to get braking action close to real life.

    A lot of times it probably doesn't matter, but on one track I know there isn't enough room to properly brake the 718. The brake zone has to start in the middle of a turn or I run out of track. Ether that or I have to really slow my corner entry. However, I know it can be done flat out in real life.
     

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  3. Andy-R

    Andy-R Alien

    The MX5 Cup car is lighter, slower, probably has better brakes than the road going 718 Boxster and it also has slick tyres.

    If you are braking earlier than you do in your 98x IRL are you braking from higher speed in the sim/in the 718?

    In the sim it will obviously be an approximation of stock brakes, brake temp/fade isn't simulated for modern road cars in AC AFAIK it is only on some of the older cars. The 718 Boxster brakes I would assume are better than the previous generation Boxster/Cayman.

    I imagine the mod track is not of the best quality as it isnt on RD, the track grip could be off or your ingame grip may have been too low. Didn't you say before that you use semi slick tyres IRL? I'm pretty sure you mentioned you were using street tyres in AC in a previous post.

    I don't know what this means. There is a corner where you begin braking mid turn in the sim (to make the corner) but in real life you dont brake at all for that corner?
     
  4. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    What track conditions do you drive with? Which tyres (hard to say for sure but I'm fairly certain "Semislicks" in AC are just normal summer sports tyres)? Did you check tyre pressures/temperatures? Which track/turns? Maybe record a video to highlight how you drive, where you have difficulties and think it differs from real life?

    I always thought road car brakes in the sim are better than real life where you rarely have optimal conditions, plus OEM brakes fade eventually on all but high-end sportscars. And from my driving in AC I didn't think of the 718 S as having bad brakes.

    Edit: Trivial, but also look at the pedals app to make sure you can brake 100%.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  5. Stereo

    Stereo Alien

    On most cars in AC tyres should be the limiter on how hard you can brake, rather than pads. Since there's no physical effort involved in braking harder, quality of pads is less important.
     
  6. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    I think you are repeating what I said. The Miata does brake considerably better than the 718. That wasn't surprising.

    My point was that the 718 in the sim, which seems to have stock brakes, has to start braking earlier than I do in a car with track pads. There may be track variations but not enough to account for that. Mostly I just brake earlier but in the case I cited the extra distance required causes problems for the learning process. This also isn't surprising if the car does have stock brakes.

    My question was whether there is a way to upgrade the brakes in a street car? I don't know enough to know. I've read track cars are open to considerable modifications. Street cars, as far as I have been able to learn so far, cannot. However, I just may not know how to do it.

    Regarding other questions. 1) I use Michelin Pilot Sport street tires on the track. As I've learned the sim I've tried to improve the learning process by turning off all the aids I can, including ABS, TC and using street tires instead of semi-slcks. 2) The turn in question is a kink that leads into a short straight. In real life it can be taken flat out and there is enough room to get slowed down for the next turn. In the sim, at the same speeds, there is not enough room to slow down unless you either start braking in the turn or enter the turn at a lower speed. Track pads would solve that problem.
     
  7. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    I'm fairly certain tyres have a greater effect on braking distances than brake pads in a Porsche (which comes with good brakes from the factory).

    If you already use sports tyres and a track-prepped car in real life why not try the "semi-slicks" in AC? Something like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 counts as "semi-slick" in my country. Likely closer to how the car is on these tyres in real life.
     
  8. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    This is interesting. I assumed, apparently wrongly, that semi-slicks would be more of a track tire and street tires would be high performance summer tires, which is why I started to use them. I am running correct pressures per the tire engineer app, but maybe I am actually using the wrong tire!

    I'm not implying the 718 has bad brakes! I'm just saying I actually get more stopping power from track pads. However, it may really be the tire model I am using. I am applying as much brake as I can without locking them up. If that isn't enough it isn't the brakes but the tires. There is also a stability issue. The sim will get unstable if you try to brake in certain places where you can actually brake very hard on the track. However, I view that as a valuable learning opportunity.
     
  9. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    Thanks, everybody. I would still like to upgrade my brakes if that is possible. However, if the semi-slick tire is really supposed to represent a high performance summer tire, I need to return to using that. It would probably go a long way to getting me back on track, as were.
     
  10. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    This has been a debate for ages on this forum, no one but the developers can tell you what tyre they really modelled. I don't have a quote at hand right now but I'm certain though that it was mentioned that Semislick counts as street-legal sports or at least grooved "track day" tyre. Either way, I think the 718 is closer to real world track tests on the "Semislicks". Not sure what real world tyre "Street" is supposed to be, there's a few tyres the car can come with IRL.
     
  11. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    Could that instability under braking be related to that the sim doesn't simulate stability systems? Though I suppose for track days you might disable PSM in real life as well.
     
  12. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    I think you're right on tires. My problem is finding a tire that works the way the tires on my car do. It appears to me my tires may be somewhere between the street and semi-slick tire. I know when I switched to the Michelins I knocked six seconds (over 4%) off my lap time and that wasn't because I was suddenly a better driver. On the other hand, Pilot Super Sports aren't anywhere near as good as Cup 2.

    I'm trying to use AC to become a better drive on track. On that basis, learning to deal with the street tires may actually be the way to go.
     
  13. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    This is really hard to say because PSM is never really off. Be that as it may, dealing with the instability is a great learning experience. I've decided I can NEVER make the sim act exactly like the car so I've actually tried to make it as difficult as possible in order to learn to deal with things I will probably never encounter.
     
    La Gonorrata likes this.
  14. mms

    mms Alien

    Did you have your ABS off when you compared braking in sim vs. RL? This could be an issue, I don't think you should turn it off for road cars in a sim as it's not possible to do that in RL and road car brakes are tuned for ABS always on...
     
    Mogster and Nahkamarakatti like this.
  15. Without knowing your max speed on the straight IRL vs AC, you can't really judge the braking points much. My guess is you're pushing the car harder in the sim and carrying much more speed to the braking zone, thus have to brake earlier. Also the street vs semi slick tire grip as has been mentioned. How close are your RL laptimes compared to in-game? And what track are we talking about?
     
  16. This. Without ABS you only have one way to adjust brake pressure: brake pedal. The best ABS systems can brake each wheel individually which makes quite a difference especially while trailbraking. There is no point using ABS cars in AC without ABS. The car is built ABS in mind.
     
    mms likes this.
  17. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Sigh...AND he has a slower car IRL - the previous gen Cayman R.
     
  18. Andy-R

    Andy-R Alien

    You cant modify any cars in AC out of the box other than car setup where things are adjustable IRL and tyre choices. I think there is some mod that can do it but I haven't tried it myself.

    It sounds like semislicks and ABS turned on might be slightly more similar experience to your car.
     
  19. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    Do AC simulate this? I know its different braking from car to car, but the ABS system in AC kinda feel the same for all cars and all you got is a longer time to stop. The ABS itself feels the same even though some cars got different good brakes. But is this really simulated, with abs system i mean?

    @Aristotelis
     
  20. Not sure but at least there's somekind of brake steer systems simulated so that might mean the system is capable to handle each tyre individually.
     
  21. DuckeyTapey

    DuckeyTapey Hardcore Simmer

    Some old cars like the M3 E30 only have a single channel ABS, so it doesn't control each brake individually. It only really helps with preventing lockups, but in certain situations it might worsen braking distances, so you might be better off with it turned off. But modern cars will profit from ABS in AC, especially with how the brake bias is setup in some cars.

    Regarding tyres: http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...-and-pp3-impressions.41019/page-7#post-809668
    So I guess OP's Michelin Pilot Sports are probably closer to the street tyres than to the semislicks.
     

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