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COMPETIZIONE British GT Esports Championship

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Ecnelis, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. JnJ | Rayleigh

    JnJ | Rayleigh Simracer

    Yes, exactly. That is what I mean by "the same people over and over". "Just fast enough" isn't possible for a lot of even really good drivers, that would really like to participate in such an event for once, since they just don't have the whole day to practise, because of job, household, paper stuff, kids, pets, gfs/wifes, etc.
    I wonder if it wasn't be possible to come up with a format that would enable people other than aliens to participate..
     
  2. Rogue Leader

    Rogue Leader Simracer

    I have to agree in that its kind of frustrating to see its the same people at the top of the leaderboard (and therefore in) all of these events. At this point a lot of these guys should be classified as Pros. And I say this as someone who probably STILL wouldn't make it in.
     
  3. bbman

    bbman Racer

    Excuses... No, it is not them grinding ACC for hours every day that makes them faster - they are simply more talented. They'd spank you in every sim, every track/car combo of your choice within the first 2 minutes without any training. British GT wants the fastest drivers, so they set a challenge for anyone interested. If you can't meet that expectation, that's not on them...

    Would you also seriously consider writing to the IOC that you're bored to always see the same athletes in the Olympic Games, they should just invite you next time? If not, why should this be any different?
     
    chksix likes this.
  4. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    Afraid I’m going to have to agree with @bbman above. You keep seeing the same people because largely these are the fastest people, and no, it’s not because they just have more time. All of us reach a point where we hit a wall, more practice can move that wall a little but it’s still there. This is the same in real motorsport where some drivers will just have that natural ability to squeeze that little more out of the car all the time.

    If you want to watch someone different you could always follow some leagues, plenty have live stream with full commentary. But currently these eSport races are the top level of what we have and they will naturally attract the top drivers.
     
  5. JnJ | Rayleigh

    JnJ | Rayleigh Simracer

    @bbman @Serge M
    I think you guys underestimate practise. Moreover there are some more factors than just talent and practise in simracing like all the hardware factors. What I'm saying is that there are a lot of people out there that have a comparable talent to the guys you see over and over, but just not enough time or the wrong hardware but would still manage a just as interesting race as all these same people (let's call them "pros" maybe to give that baby a name), but they're just not given the chance to do so. But I have the feeling that people (like you guys..?) aren't interested in an good race but more in people they can become fanboys of to have somebody to cheer on.

    Obviously you can't compare that to real racing because there is much...MUCH more money involved, but in simracing it wouldn't be a huge deal, but still these people are not given the chance and that sucks imho. So promoting an "OPEN qualifying for EVERYONE" is just hypocritical. That's why I was like "What's the point of that?".
     
  6. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    How is anyone not given the chance? Quali is open to everyone after all, hardware really doesn’t make much difference, in fact high end hardware configured for realism would be a disadvantage compared to basic Logitech stuff, an hour race on a trusty old G25 will be significantly easier on a person then the same hour race with a DD wheel set to 12-13Nm.

    I’m personally not a fan of the hotlap quali format to get in to these racers, you tend to end up with a heap of drivers who can set a very fast lap time but have little to no race raft making the races themselves a bit of a mess. I say this from my experience racing all the races in the SRO Asia eSport series last year.
     
  7. JnJ | Rayleigh

    JnJ | Rayleigh Simracer

    I thought I responded to that already...?

    The rest: Sure the argument of the high end hardware and that you are likly faster with ****ty, not so realistic hardware seems to be omnipresent in this forum. While a DD ofc is more tiresome to drive it gives you more information and the more information you get the higher is your potential, there is no doubt about it. But it's not only wheel and pedals, it's also screens and seating positions for instance. While a normal or office chair might be sufficient to have some fun, a simrig makes things a lot easier because everything is in place and therefore competetive. Triples improve your judgement potential obviously. etc etc. So can we go away from that not very well thought through argument of being able to be faster with ****ty hardware? It's about the potential...and THEN your talent comes into play. And then again, hardware doesn't even have to make MUCH difference. On this level, a little difference is enough to have no chance to get in.

    I know fast guys with exceptional situational awareness, which is a trait that most of the time comes up much too short. But since they are 0,5-1 seconds too slow in hotlapping and can't train very much because of already mentioned reasons or have hardware limitations, they're never given the chance.
     
  8. bbman

    bbman Racer

    Nah, you're just not understanding what providing an equal chance for everyone actually means. You're also deluding yourself by making up excuses that your life choices and/or hardware ( :rolleyes: ) is making you not measure up to the hubris that you could compete at that level.

    Hey, Mazepin is really the best driver on the F1 grid - he can't keep the car pointing forward for a single lap, but his awareness can't be matched by the likes of Lewis or Max! o_Oo_Oo_O
     
  9. Rogue Leader

    Rogue Leader Simracer

    I agree with you. A lot of these guys have a ton of natural talent and it has nothing to do with the time they spend (or as in later posts the hardware, I know there are guys out there kicking *** with an old beat up G27).

    My feeling is though is many of these guys should be considered pro level. These guys are qualifying every time, and they are faster than a lot of the "Pros" too, at some point they should be just in the game so that maybe some more mere mortals can make it in. Otherwise whats the point of these hotlap qualifiers if the same 10 guys are gonna win every time.

    Also I agree with what you @Serge M said, hotlap qualifiers aren't the best gauge of race pace either. The qualifiers should lead to some qualifying races. I believe a couple of these events did that.
     
  10. JnJ | Rayleigh

    JnJ | Rayleigh Simracer

    You really need to get down of the high horse of yours if you want to participate in a constructive discussion and stop adding toxicity.

    Mazepin is the wrong example. Try George Russell. That comes closer to what I was talking about and still isn't quite the point I was trying to make.
     
  11. pankykapus

    pankykapus KS Dev Team Staff Member KS Dev Team

    None of the guys making it in week after week are there because of their hardware, I can guarantee you that. Anyone (i.e. anyone fast) can get in with some work, these aren't impossible times to beat, it's just that the chance is low as these guys are naturally faster/put in more time.

    What you're suggesting is that people who put practice in should be called pros (=excluded) just because you've seen their names twice in a row, so that some potato can participate based on your personal arbitrary conditions for entry, qualifying as 'anyone'? What you really seem to want is just a random draw, that would actually give a chance to the man of the street.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  12. Flavus

    Flavus Racer

    Qualifying races is a good idea but very time consuming for the organisers and you will find that the best sim racers Nils Et al. will still be at the top. SRO want the best racers just like in real life. What team is going to give a seat to someone that doesn't have cash to pay for the seat or talent to win? I have watched almost every SRO esports race and they are good fun and the recent one at Brands Hatch was one of the best. I have a good setup with triple screens and DD1 but I am still 1.5 secs/lap slower than most aliens so equipment has nothing to do with it IMHO. I do agree that hotlappers do not always make good racers and you can see that in the esports events.
     
  13. bbman

    bbman Racer

    What point are you trying to make here? That they're too good to be allowed to compete?

    The intent from British GT is clear: they have a couple of spots and they want to fill those with the fastest drivers they can get. Those spots don't magically multiply by declaring some drivers "pros". The alternative then would be to got directly to the "pros" and not make it open to everyone - how would that help mere mortals?

    See, that's a reasonable argument. And yet, most of the names in the field are known from racing (and winning) top level global leagues, so there is arguably a good overlap between the two. Qualifying races are considerably more effort though, and when they end up being only moving targets to the real drivers anyway, is that really worth it?

    Start making constructive points instead of backhandedly accusing drivers to be undeserving their place because you and/or your mates could do it better if only you were given the same chance (talk about high horse) - then we can have a constructive discussion. Not by continuing to act like a 16 year old who thinks he's the center of the universe and deserves a medal for just showing up.
     
  14. Guidofoc

    Guidofoc Alien

    I think the point @JnJ | Rayleigh is trying to make is that these events only cater to the "aliens", and that it would be more engaging if there were different championships taking place for different drive classes (i.e. Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum etc.). I am not sure how that could work but certainly having the "non-aliens" be able to compete and win something would be engaging and maybe motivate them to put in more effort and become aliens themselves. After all this is not real racing, where the track is one and the available seats are limited. Yes, there is a cost associated with organizing events and running servers, but it's not impossible to do.

    Having said that, the British GT esports championship has been very good so far, I think having "real drivers" in the GT3s and "ACC aliens" in the GT4s creates very eventful and challenging races. Of course, this would not have been possible at all without the ability to run big grids and have people racing from places rather far away. Kunos have worked well, ACC was ready for prime time and the success of these events shows it clearly.
     
    JnJ | Rayleigh likes this.
  15. Guidofoc

    Guidofoc Alien

    If can make a criticism to ACC multiplayer broadcasts though, it is the visual "clunkiness" of the cars going on the track in multiplayer when you see them from the outside. It seems a bit as if the cars were "hovering" on the track at a set height and the wheels were going up and down to match the tarmac surface. I am not talking about ping issues here. It just feels like car movements are too simplified. I mean, Kunos made a big effort with the Unreal engine, the car models, the netcode and it shows, but car movement is awkward and to me ruins the result a bit. For comparison, the other day I watched a GT race in rF2 and the car movements seem to me more lively and more fluid. Yes, in RF2 my impression is that the cars slide a bit too much, it feels a bit like watching RC cars racing. Still, it looks more natural.
     
    Luca Zari likes this.
  16. Rogue Leader

    Rogue Leader Simracer

    That wasn't my point at all.

    My point was these guys that are alien level (and crush the qualifiers every time) should be considered Pros and maybe the pros need to have their own qualifier to fill out the spots not filled by RL drivers.. In most cases these guys would STILL make the show.

    Nils is a pro. The guy literally makes ACC instructional videos. The fact he competes in the Amateur class is frankly ridiculous.
     
    chksix and JnJ | Rayleigh like this.
  17. Mogster

    Mogster Alien

    Yes. During the Covid off season last year iRacing broadcasts proved to look more realistic, almost hard to distinguish from reality. ACC from the outside looks like it has slightly simplified physics, maybe it’s something to do with the broadcast that doesn’t capture everything you experience inside the car. Whatever, it doesn’t do ACCs excellent driving experience justice.
     
  18. Thomas Fun

    Thomas Fun Racer

    There is no amateur class in this event.
     
  19. bbman

    bbman Racer

    I'm still amazed there are real drivers taking part (except for Baldwin) for the little gain they'll be getting out of it, I still suspect quite a bit of strong-arming from British GT/SRO. Having eSports drivers on equal footing and (for the most part) considerable home field advantage would just make them look worse, and would probably lose the whole championship's appeal by being just another series where "the usual suspects" duke it out between themselves, with the odd RL driver sprinkled in.

    I can't find any wording this championship was supposed to be an amateur league. The only distinction I've read was "drivers from the real championship in the GT3s, sim racers in the GT4s". The real series might be an amateur class, but there is no equivalent to that in sim racing. Where do you draw the line to separate pro from am? Even the eSports drivers can't live from sim racing (especially not ACC), so technically they're also still amateur. Any other line will be (imo justifiably) seen as arbitrary.
     
  20. Rogue Leader

    Rogue Leader Simracer

    I guess I didn't pay close enough attention when I signed up didn't realize the GT3 class would be only RL drivers. Most of these other events have a mix of RL drivers and "Pro" sim drivers in the GT3 class.

    Oh yes I am sure they were told "you're doing this" just like in the SRO WC races. Like mentioned above, I clearly didn't pay attention that there are no Sim "Pros" in the GT3 class in this event unlike many other events.

    And heck even most pro RL race drivers have another job too. Ha
     
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