Build 5 Thoughts

tjr · Feb 4, 2019

Turk said: ↑

30 cars isn't that far off what a normal race would have going by the post by RobertLidstroem, if they could add another 15 cars they'd cover the most common grid size. I do think that asking a PC to do 60 cars is probably a step to far considering the way ACC does AI. I could be wrong.

I think if they allow 60 cars to race online that would be acceptable. I've always seen racing against AI as practice, they're just not as dynamic as racing against humans. The real McCoy is going to be online with real people.
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As Trutya said earlier, a good compromise for most hardware may be to have say a 60 car grid with only 20 cars visible. Sadly there is no way of really testing the validity of this ATM.

EDIT: Actually, this could be tested to a degree. Run the warm up lap first with a grid of 20, then a grid of 20 with only say 5 visible, then a grid of only 5 and measure the effect on hardware. Has this been attempted yet (I tend not to get involved with the benchmarking threads)?

BrunUK · Feb 4, 2019

Rendering cars has much greater effect on FPS than physics and AI. Also, the rendering appears to have next to no optimisation regarding whether the other cars are actually visible...
BrunUK said: ↑
Since I've posted before about the effects of opponent visibility on FPS, I thought it would be a good idea to take another look at that with this test setup. Besides the difference between setting it to ALL/1, it's also interesting to note the effect of letting the field drive out of view before benchmarking. Here's the results...
Code:
A: Opponent visibility 'ALL', driving in pack:    Avg: 116.567 - Min: 097 - Max: 135
B: Opponent visibility '1', driving in pack:      Avg: 235.900 - Min: 192 - Max: 289
C: Opponent visibility 'ALL', driving solo:       Avg: 145.183 - Min: 126 - Max: 154
D: Opponent visibility '1', driving solo:         Avg: 260.917 - Min: 202 - Max: 339
You can immediately see by comparing A/B that only rendering one other car causes a huge increase in framerate, even though the rest of the field is close by.

Comparing C/D, you would expect C to increase towards D as fewer cars are rendered but it only improves slightly compared to being in the middle of the pack, even when literally no other cars are actually visible. There seems to be something very wrong with ACC if opponents that are potentially visible have such a crippling effect on performance even when they're not on screen.

The important thing to note about this is that there's no difference to the physics and AI calculations. Each scenario has a full grid of 20 opponents. There's always been an assumption that ACC is heavy on the CPU because of physics and AI. This seems to suggest that's not the case at all, and it's actually rendering the cars which is causing poor performance.
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tjr · Feb 4, 2019

BrunUK said: ↑

Rendering cars has much greater effect on FPS than physics and AI. Also, the rendering appears to have next to no optimisation regarding whether the other cars are actually visible...
Click to expand...

So that backs up the theory somewhat then right? Large grids are plausible as long as the visibility (in settings rather than simply not in the FOV) of the opponent cars is limited to a manageable number?

RobertLidstroem · Feb 4, 2019

Thanks for all the input fellas! I'm just thinking GTR2 on the top of my head. Like 60 cars grid on any track - DONE.

trutya · Feb 4, 2019

RobertLidstroem said: ↑

Thanks for all the input fellas! I'm just thinking GTR2 on the top of my head. Like 60 cars grid on any track - DONE.
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yeah, GTR2... i know it's not perfect, but still the most complete sim in my opinion. it has everything what was achievable in 2005

GRFOCO · Feb 5, 2019

Gtr2 = God
No discussions about it.

Nahkamarakatti · Feb 5, 2019

Am I allowed to say that I never liked GTR2..? I played all the other sims from the era but never quite understood why I should've been interested about GTR2.

I'm sorry if your world just collapsed.

trutya · Feb 5, 2019

Nahkamarakatti said: ↑

Am I allowed to say that I never liked GTR2..? I played all the other sims from the era but never quite understood why I should've been interested about GTR2.

I'm sorry if your world just collapsed.
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my world doesn't collapse because you think otherwise
neither of the sims of that era was so complete. lots of contents, starting from driving lessons, custom championships, real championships, day-night cycles, changeable weather what you could also script too, loads of good quality mods and tracks, and you could customize almost everything in the files starting from AI capabilities through car modding and SC speed and activity until even that what can you see in the rear view mirror.
i know it's not perfect, AI was sometimes dumb and SC worked not properly, but at that time, there was no better sim. i admit there was better looking/sounding games with nicer UI but neither of them was so complete.

Nahkamarakatti · Feb 5, 2019

trutya said: ↑

my world doesn't collapse because you think otherwise
neither of the sims of that era was so complete. lots of contents, starting from driving lessons, custom championships, real championships, day-night cycles, changeable weather what you could also script too, loads of good quality mods and tracks, and you could customize almost everything in the files starting from AI capabilities through car modding and SC speed and activity until even that what can you see in the rear view mirror.
i know it's not perfect, AI was sometimes dumb and SC worked not properly, but at that time, there was no better sim. i admit there was better looking/sounding games with nicer UI but neither of them was so complete.
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To be clear I was joking hence the .
Isn't it one of those unallowed opinions anyway?

There's of course slight piece of truth in it. I think the game was pretty bad. If a game is so called "complete" it most likely means also that it's 'master of none'. I don't need complete gaming experiences. I need enjoyable driving experiences.

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Build 5 Thoughts

tjr Hardcore Simmer

BrunUK Alien

tjr Hardcore Simmer

RobertLidstroem Gamer

trutya Simracer

GRFOCO Alien

Nahkamarakatti Alien

trutya Simracer

Nahkamarakatti Alien

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