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Cars: Pros and Cons

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Rioku, Oct 1, 2019.

  1. Rioku

    Rioku Racer

    Porsche GT3
    Pro:
    - Brakes
    - Easy power out of corners

    Cons:
    - High speed corner turnin is difficult
    and related:
    - Lift off oversteer

    •Extremely sensitive aero balance(seriously try this car at paul richard and lift throttle to that fast right hander followed by straight) and yep obviously due to this tricky and even more edgy behaviour on lift off or braking i find it absolutely fantastic infact i love it.
    BUT again the enemy, power on understeer is absolutely worst here compared to audi and lamborghini thanks to this sensitive aero PLUS huge rear wing attack angles PLUS that extremely rear bias weight distribution.
    While on both audi and lamborghini it is less frustrating and can be managed slightly(not completely) with setup HERE with porsche the trade off is quite big.
    The rear wing is absolutely essential aero element for porsche compared to other cars i discussed. Porsche needs rear wing to get good trail braking performance and you ABSOLUTELY have to trail brake this car in order to NOT get understeer on entry.
    so if you decrease rear wing to overcome power on understeer the compromise is that you cannot trail brake as much hence you brake early and in straight line but on lift off all the weight on front wheels is transferred and you generally get understeer at turn in.

    •TOP speed is also compromised due to such heavy requirements of rear wing.

    •BoP is good not much ballast and power restrictions but still it is close to audi and lamborghini in terms of power

    •Low speed agility is extremely good and fun, very rewarding.

    •9000 RPM flat 6 with extremely good acceleration and one of the best looking car IMO.

    •Small wheelbase makes cars very good at rotating

    •For same "View setting" the porsche provides much better cockpit view making it easier to place the car on road and judging where the car tyres are.

    Audi:
    Pro:
    - Quite good everywhere
    - Turn-in, in particular on medium and high speed corners

    Cons:
    - Curbs (even with new tyre model)


    •Great aerodynamic balance
    i.e you can trail brake to death in this car and still not lose control easily, also on power mid engine and rear engine car seems to understeer but relative to other mid and rear engine the front end follows the driver input much better compared to other cars.


    •Car is pretty consistent behaviour wise regardless of different track setups(i only use aggressive preset) i.e it behaves nearly same at different same speeds corners and gear on different tracks. why this is a pro? because car's general or out of the box behaviour is really great for both slow speeds and mid-high speeds corners hence setup allows adjustment while still keeping good driving behaviour consistent hence setup can be tailored to drivers and circuits while car's behaviour is not heavily compromised.

    •Top speed is also one of the best

    •Great sound and clean look :) (i need a bare carbon skin though)

    •IMO has better BoP compromise i.e it has good torque but not that penalised by ballast and power is also not restricted so overall this car is truly all rounder for both qualifying and race.

    •Only thing i find less attractive in this car is that lamborghini exists why ? because to me lamborghini not only looks better but it has more brutal sounds especially downshifts on lamborghini are much brutal than audi IMO.

    Lamborghini:
    •Very fun in fast corners due to edgy aero balance.I love how the car is very engaging this way.trail braking is more tricky (and fun IMO) but at the same time due to this sensitivity of aero balance, power on understeer is also more severe compared to audi.

    •Setup wise this cars behaviour changes much more than audi.
    example->> on aggressive presets the cars behaviour on 2 different tracks say hungaroring and spa is quite different hence car's core behaviour is compromised more with setup changes compared to audi.
    While audi keeps the good traits(which i like) on both tracks with aggressive setup preset.

    •Generally this car is at top in top speed department.


    Ferrari 488 gt3 bgts
    Pro: every single parameter but one.
    Cons: "GP2 engine!".

    The lack of power makes it harder to get the laptimes. But it can still be pretty quick in almost every track.

    Racing is much harder:
    no power means you need to take the slipstream, which means you need to be very close, which is very dangerous.
    But super stability while braking allows you to take action in the most unpredictable places, which makes it very funny.

    Probably the best car for endurance racing together with Bentley (2h+)

    AMG
    Pros:
    • Excellent acceleration thanks to the mammoth torque the engine provides
    • Has both exceptional braking performance and is very stable when trail braking.
    • Brilliant performance in medium to high speed corners due to good downforce.
    • Very predictable and fast in wet conditions
    • Fairly quick and stable out of the box.

    Cons:
    • Appalling traction out of slow corners due to it's big torque output
    • Extremely thirsty car with one of the highest fuel consumptions on the grid.
    • Due to the big V8 up front the car does like to understeer a lot in slow corners.
    • Getting the best out of the car setup wise takes time to master.

    It has been very fun learning about the AMG, its setup quirks and car behaviour. It is a car which you can be pretty quick in, but to be right on the pace you really need to work on setup. The car has a massive tendency to understeer at slow speed thanks to that big engine up front and so I have found my setups are all about making the car as pointy as possible, then dialling it back to be raceable. You have to run it pretty stiff at the rear to get the mid corner rotation needed to eradicate the undesteer, however that tends to bring the lack of traction to the forefront. The car is massively thirsty and you have to run heavier to compensate compared to say the Ferrari and Lamborghini.

    Tracks that are less bumpy are better and also tracks which possess lots of faster corners, where the high downforce it produces thanks to it's efficient diffuser can be exploited. In gear acceleration 2nd and 3rd gear corners is almost class leading I would say (2nd behind the Aston really) and only at really high speeds does it start to slow down (compared to Lambo and Audi which just keep on going).

    One thing I have noticed is it has excellent braking performance. To help rotate the car into the apex and negate the understeer I run a pretty aggressive rearward BB. The only reason I can do that is because of the cars stability when trail braking, You can really lean on the front end and apply a fair bit of steering lock whilst releasing the brake pressure. Overall it is a pretty balanced car which has a few horrible flaws but they are counteracted by some great advantages too.

    Pros. Instant torque outta the corners.
    That howling V8 with side exhausts is unmatched.
    It has the best traction control of bunch.
    Sucks up in-the slipstream quite well.
    Easy to tune the setup, which allows me to throw this car around with minimal penalty.
    Car is just plain raw outta the box..

    Nissan Nismo GTR3

    Pros:
    • A great balance between a very stable and surprisingly agile car.
    • Provides very good front-end feeling about what the car is doing, resulting in good confidence when driving it. It gives to me the best feedback of all the cars.
    • Decent acceleration and good top speed.
    • Very good braking.
    • Responds as expected to setup changes.
    • Nice engine power/torque delivery curve.
    • Can drive over curbs with confidence.
    Cons:
    • Looses much more speed when coasting compared to other cars.
    • Not sure due to engine or gearing, this car has some kind of very short low gearing. Going down to 1st gear will result in losing to much speed compared to other cars. A bit less but also on 2nd gear. This requires to use 1 gear higher on some slow corners compared to other cars.
    • Kind of a high center of gravity, the car tends to rotate too much, so requires a bit harder/slower suspension.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
    Coanda, deadmeat2k, SimGuy_1 and 5 others like this.

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  3. nfsw55

    nfsw55 Hardcore Simmer

    Reiter Engineering Gallardo R-EX:

    Pro: top speed
    con: everything else
    :p
     
  4. henkjansmits

    henkjansmits Racer

    Porsche GT3

    Pro:
    - Brakes
    - Easy power out of corners

    Cons:
    - High speed corner turnin is difficult
    and related:
    - Lift off oversteer

    Audi:
    Pro:
    - Quite good everywhere
    - Turn-in, in particular on medium and high speed corners

    Cons:
    - Curbs (even with new tyre model)
     
  5. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Racer

    I can only write about the cars i drive most but i will give it a try,also i will just write in points so it may not be a pro cons type post.

    1.Audi R8

    •Great aerodynamic balance
    i.e you can trail brake to death in this car and still not lose control easily, also on power mid engine and rear engine car seems to understeer but relative to other mid and rear engine the front end follows the driver input much better compared to other cars.


    •Car is pretty consistent behaviour wise regardless of different track setups(i only use aggressive preset) i.e it behaves nearly same at different same speeds corners and gear on different tracks. why this is a pro? because car's general or out of the box behaviour is really great for both slow speeds and mid-high speeds corners hence setup allows adjustment while still keeping good driving behaviour consistent hence setup can be tailored to drivers and circuits while car's behaviour is not heavily compromised.

    •Top speed is also one of the best

    •Great sound and clean look :) (i need a bare carbon skin though)

    •IMO has better BoP compromise i.e it has good torque but not that penalised by ballast and power is also not restricted so overall this car is truly all rounder for both qualifying and race.

    •Only thing i find less attractive in this car is that lamborghini exists why ? because to me lamborghini not only looks better but it has more brutal sounds especially downshifts on lamborghini are much brutal than audi IMO.

    2.Lamborghini->>

    •Very fun in fast corners due to edgy aero balance.I love how the car is very engaging this way.trail braking is more tricky (and fun IMO) but at the same time due to this sensitivity of aero balance, power on understeer is also more severe compared to audi.

    •Setup wise this cars behaviour changes much more than audi.
    example->> on aggressive presets the cars behaviour on 2 different tracks say hungaroring and spa is quite different hence car's core behaviour is compromised more with setup changes compared to audi.
    While audi keeps the good traits(which i like) on both tracks with aggressive setup preset.

    •Generally this car is at top in top speed department.

    3.Porsche ->>

    •Extremely sensitive aero balance(seriously try this car at paul richard and lift throttle to that fast right hander followed by straight) and yep obviously due to this tricky and even more edgy behaviour on lift off or braking i find it absolutely fantastic infact i love it.
    BUT again the enemy, power on understeer is absolutely worst here compared to audi and lamborghini thanks to this sensitive aero PLUS huge rear wing attack angles PLUS that extremely rear bias weight distribution.
    While on both audi and lamborghini it is less frustrating and can be managed slightly(not completely) with setup HERE with porsche the trade off is quite big.
    The rear wing is absolutely essential aero element for porsche compared to other cars i discussed. Porsche needs rear wing to get good trail braking performance and you ABSOLUTELY have to trail brake this car in order to NOT get understeer on entry.
    so if you decrease rear wing to overcome power on understeer the compromise is that you cannot trail brake as much hence you brake early and in straight line but on lift off all the weight on front wheels is transferred and you generally get understeer at turn in.

    •TOP speed is also compromised due to such heavy requirements of rear wing.

    •BoP is good not much ballast and power restrictions but still it is close to audi and lamborghini in terms of power

    •Low speed agility is extremely good and fun, very rewarding.

    •9000 RPM flat 6 with extremely good acceleration and one of the best looking car IMO.

    It may sound like porsche is not all that good but if you love porsche like me then you will drive it anyway.
    Also new 991.2 car will fix lot of above mentioned issues hopefully so i'm certainly hyped.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
    Soldier_003 likes this.
  6. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    Car: AMR V12 Vantage GT3, Audi R8 LMS, Bentley Continental GT3, BMW M6 GT3, Emil Frey Jaguar G3, Ferrari 488 GT3, Honda NSX GT3, Lamborghini Gallardo R-EX GT3, Lamborghini Huracan GT3, Lexus RC F GT3, McLaren 650s GT3, Mercedes AMG GT3, Nissan GT-R Nismo GT3, Porsche 991 GT3 R, Porsche 991II GT3 Cup

    Pro: Great

    Con: Sh!t wanna be Shumacher MP Drivers..

    :p:D
     
    anthonylroy and sissydriver like this.
  7. Rioku

    Rioku Racer

    First post updated.

    Thanks guys!!
     
  8. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Racer

    Glad you found my post helpful.
    I just want to say that some of the points i said about cars like, looks and sounds etc are my personal opinion not facts otherwise all other car traits are what i found via internet, aris(Developer) post and my personal experience(i'm no alien but i generally get close lap times to aliens 0.5-1 seconds off so i'm trying to say that i'm pretty much on cars maximum limits hence you can count on my opinions )
     
    Rioku likes this.
  9. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Racer

    Those are basically 3 of the cars I'm fastest with. I suck with the AMG and the Ferrari tho I've seen people being fast with them.
    BTW I'm talking about default safe/aggressive setups, except for TC adjustments.
     
  10. Borbor

    Borbor Racer

    R8 can trail brake to death into the corner.

    That def ain't right.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
     
  11. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    Hello again.. You seem to have a lot of inside knowledge. Do you have any constructive open communications with Aris & LK regarding these topics?
     
  12. Borbor

    Borbor Racer

    For the Gen 2 Porsche Aris and I have had a lot of conversation about it.

    For the audi, phils was my proxy in communication, but the level of input I gave there is nowhere near the Porsche.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
     
    Coanda likes this.
  13. PaulPunkGTX

    PaulPunkGTX Gamer

    I can trailbrake very well with the Audi. Maybe your driving style isn't fitting it. But I really hate, how it handles in fast corners, like Eau Rouge and similiar corners.
     
    SimGuy_1 and ChivasRx like this.
  14. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Racer

    I have inconsistency in behaviour at eau rouge as well but i got some tips that helped me a little (on default aggressive setup)

    •raise rear ride height by 1 or 2 clicks
    because i thinks the more speed you carry on entry the more downforce push the car to the ground causing it to bottom out hence no aero

    •In addition to that maybe(not necessary) raise front height as well by 1 click.

    •Since this may ruin aero balance and total downforce you can go for 1 click more rear wing BUT this may make T16 understeer.

    •Best thing IMO is to just give up on trying to take that corner flat i.e just accept that it can't go as fast as ferrari or even lamborghini(im much much better in lamborghini at eau rouge despite lowering rear wing on aggressive setup ) so what i do is
    Carry maximum speed on entry ofcourse but don't go too much to left before climbing

    •As you turn right to climb first get off the throttle and keep it above 60%-80% then turn right, increase it slowly but not completely

    •Then once you are close to top and have to turn left first then go 100% throttle.


    TL;DR

    Do not try to take mid portions of eau rouge flat just keep throttle around 60%-80%, once you reach top turn left first then go flat.
     
  15. Salvatore Amato

    Salvatore Amato Simracer

    Ferrari 488 gt3 bgts

    Pro: every single parameter but one.
    Cons: "GP2 engine!".

    The lack of power makes it harder to get the laptimes. But it can still be pretty quick in almost every track.

    Racing is much harder:
    no power means you need to take the slipstream, which means you need to be very close, which is very dangerous.
    But super stability while braking allows you to take action in the most unpredictable places, which makes it very funny.

    Probably the best car for endurance racing together with Bentley (2h+).
     
    Soldier_003 likes this.
  16. popo87

    popo87 Racer

    Jaguar
    Pro: sound
    Cons: slippery
     
    nfsw55 and Salvatore Amato like this.
  17. dave967

    dave967 Gamer

    My best & favorite car is the Amg.
    Pros. Instant torque outta the corners.
    That howling V8 with side exhausts is unmatched.
    It has the best traction control of bunch.
    Sucks up in-the slipstream quite well.
    Easy to tune the setup, which allows me to throw this car around with minimal penalty.
    Car is just plain raw outta the box..
    I like this car so much that if i had the money i’d buy the street version.. lol...

    cons: none
     
  18. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Racer

    IMO slippery is not a con :).
    As a wise man once said oversteer provides options, understeer doesn't.
     
    bratt01 likes this.
  19. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Racer

    Some few positive points if you would like to add, which MAYBE true for all people for porsche->>

    •Small wheelbase makes cars very good at rotating

    •For same "View setting" the porsche provides much better cockpit view making it easier to place the car on road and judging where the car tyres are.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  20. Rioku

    Rioku Racer

    Updated, thank you all!!!!
     
  21. Salvatore Amato

    Salvatore Amato Simracer

    lol are making a manual? add the info in acc blog for those that are available. Anyway it is a good idea
     

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