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Comparison times on the real lap vs ACC - track Spa

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Pier84, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. Pier84

    Pier84 Racer

    On the occasion of the 24h of Spa, watching the race and seeing the lap times (especially in superpole) I noticed a huge difference between reality and ACC.
    I'll explain. The pole was 2: 18.588, (zero traffic and track in very good condition), in ACC I also saw times like 2: 15.3 ..
    Now it is clear that they are lap times made by alines, but the point is the following: given the reproduction in Competizione of cars so close to reality, how is such a difference possible?

    Really curious to understand what this is :rolleyes:
    Thanks for any explanations and sorry for not perfect English.
     
    tbhockeyboy likes this.

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  3. [ATF]Shanti

    [ATF]Shanti Racer

    Well wring out everything in a game with hours over hours of training and setup optimization, push (over) limits without consequences, makes it easier to gain those times on track.... I don't know if after superpole cars are in park ferme status... Teams knows that rain will come so they have compromised dry/wet setups?
     
    Freddie Seng, Mogster and m_box97 like this.
  4. david m

    david m Racer

    it's pretty common that in any actual game/simulatior the lap times are faster then in real life for multiple reasons, as for example no fear to crash, no fear todie, no fear about money, and the most important that is that people playing games have an ilimited hours of practice and tries.
    Also weather conditions for times like 2'15 in spa are probably perfect conditions,and in real life and in real track you can have good coniditions but we can't know if they are the ideal .
     
    Freddie Seng likes this.
  5. Personal opinion:
    Skills play a big role. Thinking to myself, I am not naturally skilled as for reflexes/eye-hand coordination and the like. I can learn and improve, but I know I won't ever be a talent nor an alien (because that is written in my DNA).
    So, skills are the first thing. Then: if you drive the ACC cars the same way you would in real life, the laptimes will be pretty close to the real ones.
    Drive them as if you are in a videogame, and you can go faster. You can use setup tricks that in real life may cause drawbacks (which maybe aren't that important in a videogame). Not saying that it's always like that or that that approach works for everybody: some of the aliens are really (REALLY!) gifted and serious about improving their skills and smart just on top of that. Some others would do everything possible to lower a laptime, no matter if it is agaist common sense or not really feasible in real life. As long as it works to make them go faster, it's fine.
     
  6. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    What weather are you seeing 2:15.3 in ACC? How much rubber is down etc. The start of Superpole this year had these temps. And how much rubber was down?

    Screenshot_20190731-185404_YouTube.jpg

    Are the ACC laps in optimal with hotlap mode where you get a brand new set of tyres each time you cross the line? In likely cooler temps and unlimited attempts with overly agressive setups that arent going to race that well.

    Is there park Ferme rules in Blancpain at all? or are they allowed to change anything between qualy and race. Would any team run a setup borderline driveable for a single lap at great risk of losing the car with a small error?

    Also how is 2019 BOP compared to 2018 that we have. Quite a few variables and I havent seen people run those times in any server Ive been in.

    Even if there were guys that could easy enough do 2:16 or less in higher temps and normal qualy its not going to be anywhere near that quick. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
    Ignacio Prieto likes this.
  7. Pier84

    Pier84 Racer

    I do not know the precise data, certainly the best possible conditions, this is clear. I can also link to the video, ACC version 1.0.6
     
  8. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    If the video doesnt show what session and temps its set in it doesnt mean much either.
     
  9. Pier84

    Pier84 Racer

    I know you're right..

    Clearly everything you say is true, although I believe that professional pilots are much less afraid of what you think, then of course, you can try the best lap on SIMs endless times without thoughts, in reality no, a small mistake is enough and you're done.
    I emphasized the big difference between the 2 recorded times ..
    In any case, some good ideas came up.
     
  10. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    I agree, in the SIM world you have no fears.
    You crash, so what? You are not injured, you don't run the risk of waiting many hours for repairs, you don't have the worry of losing your place in the drivers seat, you don't have worries about sponsors backing out.
    In the SIM world you jump straight into a new car within 10 seconds.
    There is nothing like fear to slow you down in the real world. It may not even be a conscious decision brought on by fear, but a natural automatic reaction brought on by self preservation that you have no power against.
    In the SIM world you can practice for hundreds of hours, with a hundreds of set ups, for every car. Where is real life you have far more restrictions.
     
  11. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    Still top pros can push the car very close to its limits though they will likely make setups a little less sketchy then people will for sims.

    Still in a 2.4hr race Monday with dyanmic weather (a few short showers during race) and over a 24hr time cycle in our league best race laps for the top few guys were all in the 2:18's. These were all 1 stop races with stints over the usual 65 minute Blancpain limit and I was fuel saving in the merc for 80% of the race to make sure I could make it on a single stop. Still dry pace was mostly 2:18s on fairly heavy fuel or warn rubber at the end of the stints which is a bit too quick possibly.

    This with us needing more caution over some curbs so it will be interesting to see how things are balanced out when the tyre model is updated.
     
    Roberto Olivetti and Thug like this.
  12. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    Just to show how much temps effect pace here is min temp (10c in menu)at 7pm in optimum hotlap mode with no clouds getting on track 5/5 temps. These are likely not even optimal but considerably faster then hot temps. My laps are also not perfect and I never tried hotlaps at these temps before, my tyres were a bit cold so slightly higher temps likely could have got another .5 or so plus a better lap.

    upload_2019-8-1_17-42-25.png

    I did try max temps which is 40c but still same time of day 7PM and no clouds which is when the superpole started, this gave in game temps of 35 35 and my best lap was 2:18.5 so about 3 seconds just in different temps. Then we really have no idea how much rubber was down in the real super pole but you would assume generally less then the end of a dry race which is where optimum in ACC would be. So the actual times are probably not all that far off in ACC compared to the real cars, for the reasons of unlimited attempts and more aggressive setups in a sim your likely going to be able to get a bit more out of it then someone can with only 2 laps and needing to not destroy the car before a 24hr race where pole really isn't that important. ;)



    Many people tend to focus too much on ultimate optimal pace times, when in reality these are rarely important. In any server you just need to be the fastest in the current conditions, it may be a slower track or even faster then you have ever ran before.

    Its also one reason why I really hoped that in ACC the special events would actually be linked better to the real series, if each track had a hotlap or superpole event with conditions matching as closely as possible to when the real qualy sessions happened we could get a nice comparison of performance vs the real series. Also if these events were open to all cars we could even get a good look at how BOP is working with a large sample size in the exact same conditions. The PC rating would also be a bit more useful and would keep resetting back lower if there were permanent events. Have the actual rating be car specific but then also let use see how all cars compare against each other.
     
    ave_golf, donShere, Perell0ne and 6 others like this.
  13. [ATF]Shanti

    [ATF]Shanti Racer

    Real life event weather conditions linked special events, yes sir!
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
    martcerv likes this.
  14. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    Another thought that no one has mentioned is what the motion of a fast car is having on your body itself.
    When sat in a sim rig you are nice and still, but in a real car there are various forces doing various things to your body.
    Ok, you may be strapped in tightly to a bucket seat, but could never be strapped in that tight that you don't move at all, and side to side or back and forward movement can affect the inside of your body and your head.
    This may only be very slightly, but could still be enough for a slower lap than a sim rig.

    I guess what I am saying is that a combination or various factors that you can ONLY get in a real car can all have a bearing on your lap times.
     
    ave_golf likes this.
  15. Pier84

    Pier84 Racer

    interesting consideration, I hadn't thought of it
     
  16. Ricky Reject

    Ricky Reject Hardcore Simmer

    I dont think that any sim (no matter how good it is) is a 100% actual intepretation of real life. How do you simulate G-forces, varying humidity affecting engine performance as well as tyres and brakes, wind, sun, tarmac and tyre abresion, wear on everything from every crank in the transmission to the nuts and bolts affecting suspension and linkeage.

    So no matter how good the simulation is, it cannot be a 100% accurate simulation of real life. Imagine the processing power needed to simulate each and every aspect of each and every detail of the car. The developer simply must focus on what is "most important" in this array of values available. I'm more impressed with the fact that they're still able to cut it that close :)
     
    martcerv, Thug and Freddie Seng like this.
  17. Pier84

    Pier84 Racer

    Thanks for the tests and for the data you provided, we now have a more complete view of the whole matter.

    But I wanted to clarify one thing, the discussion was not born to doubt the level of simulation of ACC, be it clear, but as said to understand the why of those differences and learn something.
     
  18. chksix

    chksix Simracer

    Indeed, the forces acting on me while Karting IRL makes me nauseous because they make my head spin until I get used to it. It's extra bad at indoors tracks with their long tight curves.
    The alien Huuttu or how it is spelled puked after a few laps in the single seater when he got to try racing a real car. (the video is on the tube if you want to watch the challenge)
     
    Thug likes this.
  19. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    I have a full motion rig and I think that this has slowed me down.
    When I go over the sausage strips I feel my rig rattle/jolt, being in real car you will feel similar, but being in a motionless rig you wont feel this at all.
    I am convinced that motion has made me slower, so stands to reason that 'real' motion will have a big affect too.
     
    Ricky Reject likes this.
  20. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    For comparison here is the qualy times from our 2.4hr race Monday night. I cant remember what the weather was or track condition but clearly it wasnt very quick.

    I think in the same conditions as that hotlap I did, 3 to 5 guys likely could have gone sub 2:16. But my lap was probably a better one then in that video and only 2:19.0

    [​IMG]
     
  21. David Wright

    David Wright Hardcore Simmer

    This is an issue in most (all?) sims. I watched a Matt Malone stream of an iRacing GT3 race at Spa. They were doing low 2:14s in the race.
     

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