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Confusion with the current state of ac

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by ShredatorFIN, Aug 11, 2015.

  1. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    Lot of good stuff happened with 1.2 --> for example superior AI, compared to old.

    However, I feel very confused now. Many reviews give it 90 score, not because lot of content but realism, handling, ffb. Even an old and prestigious automobile magazine in my country reviewed AC, and while they said it lacks content and has bad AI (it was older version), they said the handling is "scarily realistic" and everything in cars, grip, braking, fixing rear end that comes forward, feels like the real thing. They test normally real cars (normal cars, sports cars but also supercars), not games, test driving cars and finding flaws in them is their profession. And they couldn't find a single flaw in AC physics, not one mention about errors in handling, in 2 spreads review, nothing but praise.

    "AC does such a wonderful job that you feel it is just you and the car. It doesn’t feel like a filter. It isn’t “Game X’s version of car Y”; it is that car.” Said Jon Denton. Basically this is what everyone said, handling is golden, ffb is sublime.

    But now you change stuff... change the FFB. Cars don't feel like they used to. You say it's the tire model, not ffb, but with the tire model also ffb changed, cars changed. Few things are the same. Have to re-learn all cars, all tracks, because only part of the old stuff applies now.

    I haven't driven these cars, only my crappy european everyman car. I have no idea how they handle IRL. But I was led to believe, they sort of "are" the real thing, closest currently anyway. Why you fix something that wasn't broken? Why you change the tire model? Now, no matter how I try to avoid it, I begin to feel like "OK, so it wasn't the real thing, it was their best guess like everyone else.. and they keep guessing."

    Can you provide us data why you changed what you did, how is this new model more realistic? Only the patch notes don't explain much "Changed tyre this, camber that" "Adjusted brake balance" Oh you did, nice. Doesn't say much to a layman. No explanation why, why you decide to tinker with core of AC that media/gamers is hyping and talking about, the acclaimed physics and ffb? What are the heavy reasons?

    Also with addition of Zandvoort, while I like the visual appearance and it is fun to drive, you made a compromise on the "laser scanned tracks". That is very small complaint though, wouldn't care about it if the cars wouldn't have been changed so drastically. But this changes of handling feel weird, don't know what to believe anymore.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
    Zboubi, mrk1001, Paul Velasco and 5 others like this.

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  3. Kristaps

    Kristaps Alien

    Old AC was to easy, sim racers want a challenge, harder = more realistic:cool:
    I am joking:D:D



    ...or maybe not
     
  4. ouvert

    ouvert Alien

    well FFB was broken bad - we were complaining - Stephano fixed it - it is much better now .. I dare to say it made it to top 3 FFBs
     
    cooknn, Rui Santos and LeDude83 like this.
  5. Stereo

    Stereo Alien

    I think you have to look at it the other way around - what are other sims getting wrong, that even with these flaws, AC was head and shoulders above the crowd?

    As for why people praised it when it was wrong - that's cause people don't know what they're talking about :p There could be a phoenix lighting tires on fire in Rettifilo and people would say that's just what happens to tires in braking zones.
     
    PuffTheMagicBelgian and Jebus like this.
  6. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    Exactly. Game reviewers, wouldn't put much value to what they say. But this car magazine Tekniikan Maailma (World of Technology) do know what they talk about. They know more about real car handling and structure than 99.99% on this forum and 100% more than "gaming media". It's a very critical magazine, not advertising cars, but criticizing, they know their stuff throughout. So what they said about AC, weighs for me more than what "sim racers" say, some may have track time or even some competitive low-series experience, but few here are seasoned full-time professionals of test driving cars. And they had no single complaint about the realism / handling. All complaints of the review were on AI, lacking damage model, small amount of content and heavy system requirements.

    When their review was published, I made a thread about it: http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...n-respected-car-magazine-in-my-country.23049/

    For example their review in January 2015 about Skoda Octavia model is 12 pages, they drove it first 60 000 km, then took the car apart down to smallest piece, film it all to show readers wear & tear, test everything, measure everything, tell every flaw. They also get track hours with cars like Ferrari & Lamborghini all the time, of course not as extensive tests, but I think they know more about car structure / handling than average sim racers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
    snyperal and Vítor Sousa like this.
  7. Vítor Sousa

    Vítor Sousa Hardcore Simmer

    Yep.

    And I love the crowd that says this is the most realistic sim ever, and when all feel changes, after 5 seconds they say it's more real than real.

    And now it seems feel took a step backwards, so now we are less real than more real than real. ;)
     
    eXo, Jaytrackrideruk and Rui Santos like this.
  8. Arch

    Arch Alien

    AC right now is in a post-patch status, after a patch that added many features and bugs along with them. The 4WD code really screwed up everything, for one.

    Wait some time.
     
  9. Atle Dreier

    Atle Dreier Alien

    All I know is that the GT86 is the closest to the real thing I've ever been able to try. I finally have the exact car on the exact tracks I've been, and it's VERY close. A lot less intimidating in the game of course, and a lot less feedback from the car. But the braking points are the same, the reactions to bumps and kurbs are the same, the TC kicks in at the same points and in the same circumstances.

    So, is AC perfect? Nope, not by a long shot! Is it believeable? Hell yeah!
     
  10. Horus

    Horus Alien

    Why did the testers not get to 'Grips' with it? There are still testers right, these patches are not just dumped and watch? I must be one of those that has like every update, yet this last one is wrong in many ways, I just don't get it. I know it only takes one piece of code to through a curvedball into the mix, but this must have been picked up by someone, well it should shouldn't it?

    I can still drive but it just does not feel right, the tyres, engine, lots of strangeness. Good luck Team Kunos fixing this one, and soon please. :)

    edit: Atle, it does seem very car specific. I liked the GTA, but the 155 and one of the M3's were weird. I will have another bash later and see if it was just not enough coffee in the system.
     
  11. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Well, the BMW GT2 and 458 GT2 feel pretty much the same to me in 1.2.3 as in 1.1.x but with a slightly more lively feel to it. The FFB differences I can hardly notice.
    I think you should not be concerned - these small changes were caused by physics optimizations, not random changes.
    People were complaining a lot about high SAT and devs fixed it and they clearly said so. I don't see anything wrong with that and I'm glad that Kunos keeps optimizing stuff.
     
    Niki Đaković and ears1991 like this.
  12. mistery

    mistery Hardcore Simmer

    I highly doubt that. 99.99%. Are you 12? These simulators have professional drivers on their starting grinds and sometimes you can't even trust their judgement. Because people are subjective. And yes, AC has those too. They are probably here to be as confused as you are.

    Everyone is a critic. Look at all the posts on this forum. On Steam, on every website. Because everyone has an opinion. They know their stuff based on what? 12 hours spent in the simulator? Did they do a followup review after every patch that changed handling model related stuff? Did they say the handling got less real or more real with patches? I would guess no. This is a technical magazine providing general technical articles. Calling them "experts" is an exaggeration. How bout you write to them and ask them to see this hocus pocus with patches in Assetto Corsa and how uber real it is or isn't compared to when they reviewed it in March and then we can further discuss your confusion.

    You are talking about a commercial simulator sold on gaming sites played with gaming peripherals. You are talking about realism in a game essentially (also referred to as one by the devs) and how that game compares to real life driving of performance cars. A sim tries to copy real life and AC is closest to that at the moment. Patches fine tune the handling. How exactly do you imagine it will ever be a 1:1 experience when you are using a plastic wheel sitting in your living room looking at a TVscreen/monitor?

    I swear some people are taking this simulator thing all too seriously.
     
  13. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Hardcore Simmer

    My favourite car is broken long time ago, the BMW M3 E30 (also DTM version), since some patch the braking became just awful and unrealistic, you just give a slight touch on the brake in straight line and car go all over the place...
     
    nate, kro and Horus like this.
  14. ouvert

    ouvert Alien

    hmm .. for me it is huge difference .. I wasn`t driving in AC for few months cause of it (except testing after every patch) ..
     
  15. Jebus

    Jebus Alien

    We have this Tekniikan Maailma religion here in Finland. There's people who believes that everything they say is the absolute truth. :D

    It is a high quality magazine tho and is kinda legend here.
     
    ShredatorFIN likes this.
  16. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    It's not an exaggeration. Yes they write about other tech stuff, to appeal to wider audience, but it's mainly car magazine and started as a car magazine. Cars are still the main focus. Not 12 hours in simulator, try years and years of test driving cars and finding flaws in them, every day of your life. You don't get to work in that magazine easily, it's considered the most credible source here, the most critical and serious kind of car magazine. And Finland has high level of regulations about getting to write this stuff anyway, they don't take bribes for "Car of the Year" like in Germany.

    Racing sim can never be 100% realistic. Any idiot realizes this, there is no physical feeling, not even in motion sims (1:1 real) that cost more than a real car. We are talking on a game level realistic, as I'm sure are all the reviewers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  17. mistery

    mistery Hardcore Simmer

    That is not just an E30 thing. Bad braking is an AC staple in my opinion but what do I know. I'm just a critic.
     
  18. MrPinkPanda

    MrPinkPanda Gamer

    To me, some cars handle very fine indeed. The cars actually have grip to the tarmac via tires and the grip does not break suddenly under small load. Tho' some cars still have some considerable problems in their drive ability. Some of the problems are listed down below.

    Ferrari 458 GT2: Sometimes it really feels like that the car runs on airbags instead of tires. This effect multiplies on slow speeds when the car starts to get weirdly loose on mid-corner. The car does't even feel like normally "loose". It just feels like that it'd be floating on the track surface on slow speeds.

    NISMO GT-R: Very weird snappy oversteer on mid-corner. To me this car really doesn't handle like a all wheel drive sportscar. It just is very -very- loose indeed at some places.

    Really other than that, I really enjoy the driveability of other cars in Assetto Corsa. Really well made vehicles! Kudos to Kunos!
     
  19. Rodrigo Pires

    Rodrigo Pires Simracer

    Welcome to the iRacing complex :D

    Thats one of the cons of continuous development (actually it isn´t, but people get confused).

    When you make a software, it is never 100% finished, and as you go updating stuff, eventually one little change in one area can affect a lot of others (like tires in ffb, or brakes or aero).

    People who "review" things only get the final product, and don´t need to know what´s going on under the hood (i mean, the software :D). The biggest problem is when something is marketed as "the ultimate physics engine" and people believe it as if it was some holy grail and get mad when it changes. But changes are common and there is tons of stuff that will change little things here and there.
     
    Kristaps, mistery and Rui Santos like this.
  20. I fixed that for you ;)
     
    snyperal and mistery like this.
  21. Sen Dewael

    Sen Dewael Racer

    The brakes (with abs) are very annoying in some cars.. They just don't brake anymore, not in every car. The GT-R Nismo brakes are good but of some cars they don't brake anymore..
    With the GT-R, if you put it in 1st gear then full brake and full throttle the front wheels spins backwards :p
     
    Rui Santos likes this.

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