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Dirt Rally 2.0?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Andrew_WOT, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. Luis Branco

    Luis Branco Hardcore Simmer

    "wheel friction" to 0 doesn't help either.
    I'm already with 92 minutes of play time. I'm going to ask for a refund.:(
     
  2. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    No it doesn't bring more road feedback sadly. :( Damn it will be shame if they don't fix this. Otherwise it's such an improvement over Dirt Rally (while less on tarmac)
     
  3. Luis Branco

    Luis Branco Hardcore Simmer

    Steam refunded it and put the value on my wallet.
    If and when Codemasters improve on what it is at the moment, I'll consider buy it again, but for now I'm not going to risk to keep it as it is.
     
    ShredatorFIN and Andrew_WOT like this.
  4. plaid

    plaid Alien

    Did you tried what was suggested in the steam thread?

    Here is also a thread with somewhat more detailed settings:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/dirtgame/comments/atojsm/ffb_issue_lack_of_textureroad_feel_ffb_force_ffb/

    Some report big improvements. Anyway best to let others try it and wait for solutions or fixes to give it a go yourself if its meh.

    One thing: It May not feel like RBR or DR, which maybe isnt necessarly what it should. If realism is the goal, it may not feel like AC, AMS, RF2 or RBR or whatever.
    Thinking about the reactions to the FFB of ACC in comparsion to ACC or pretty different opinions between AC, RF2, r3e for example.
     
  5. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    Optimization isn't that stellar either. While I understand not every game can have Forza Horizon 4 optimization, to get 60 fps on triples (1080ti) I have to drop details quite a bit

    Also other nuisances:

    - Can't play single player Career mode without being online = connected to their RaceNet
    - Can't choose hardcore damage in career mode
    - Hardcore damage is generally speaking a joke. It's more like "Forgiving Mario Kart damage" vs "Regular forgiving damage". You often can't total the car, even if you try. Nothing like RBR level of "fear", you can be overconfident
    - Stick shifter + clutch vs. paddles/sequential? Have to go to menu to switch every time, if you want to use authentic gears for a given car
    - No true triples support (not surprised though, didn't expect it)

    At least there's some sim features.

    - Can change FOV. Although not in exact degrees, but few slider presets on scale "Narrow/wide". No seat height adjustment
    - Can hide steering wheel + driver hands
    - If using hands & wheel on screen, there's 1:1 animation this time
    - Mouse support in menus (not really sim feature, just common sense)

    Also none of the graphic or FFB options have explanations into then, what they actually do. Common, but don't get why developers can't add it
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
    cerebralvortex likes this.
  6. Luis Branco

    Luis Branco Hardcore Simmer

    I changed various FFB settings in game and edited the files but all I got was a stronger force but not increased detail. Overall, what it did, to me, was adding wheel resistance.
    But I was not expecting it to be like AC, RF2, etc. but wasn't expecting FFB to be so void of any sort of detail.
    But who knows, Codemasters can release some sort of update that will improve things and if it does, I may re-buy it.
    Until then, as you said, better let others try it.
     
  7. Luis Branco

    Luis Branco Hardcore Simmer

    And it has TrackIR support too.:D:cool:
     
    ShredatorFIN likes this.
  8. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    Yeah it does. And actually seat height adjustment, I missed that one
     
  9. RST

    RST Gamer



    try this..... (for all devices!!)
     
  10. Andrew_WOT

    Andrew_WOT Alien

    This is not a fix, plus his settings are pretty bad, nothing but SAT essentially.
     
  11. jaxx_za

    jaxx_za Hardcore Simmer

    Looking for some opinions please;
    I watched Jimmy Broadbent's video as he has a pedal cam, and it felt like the car rotated way too easily with just steering input (unlike RBR that needs a good dab of brake to make the car rotate).

    Also in ViperConcepts video he wasn't left foot braking at all, again implying that the steering input is enough to rotate the car.

    Those that have played the title - is the brake as critical to induce rotation as it is in RBR?

    PS: Don't mean to start another RBR comparison discussion - just trying to understand what type of physics model has been implemented.
     
    Nahkamarakatti likes this.
  12. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    https://twitter.com/TMThrustmaster/status/1100440795759476736

    Wheel settings of Jon Armstrong, the rally consultant who helped Codemasters with the handling. Kind of surprising settings (far from default), maybe I'll try them but I haven't usually touched Periodic or Constant in TM control panel, and not sure if I want to just for 1 title

    About the braking, you can use brakes to lean on front suspension and make really rapid turns that way (or spin, if too much brake). It's very clearly noticeable imo at least in cars I've tried, you can turn without but brakes will help

    Btw, interesting reply I noticed from TM: https://twitter.com/TMThrustmaster/status/1100452016374063104

    I don't know what TM has got do with it, because it happens on all wheel brands. But at least they are looking into it
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
    Luis Branco and jaxx_za like this.
  13. Luis Branco

    Luis Branco Hardcore Simmer

    Constant and Periodic are static (independent of wheel use and angle).
    It's the game that modifies these forces, for example: effects of road / track type gravel, tarmac, mud, kerbs, bumps, etc.
    Constant forces are used for things like surface type, for instance, gravel, tarmac, mud, sand, etc.
    Periodic forces can be used in combination with Constant forces, which one example can be the gravel surface, to give the feeling of a relatively slippery surface (constant) but also the shaking due to the gravel itself (periodic).
    Periodic forces are used for things like kerbs, bumps, jumps, trenches, etc.

    Considering the above, these are the detailed forces that I miss in DR 2.0 and if they are barely existent, if at all, I do not see the purpose of reducing those forces in Thrustmaster CP.

    The forces most noticeable in the DR2.0 are the ones from the Spring and Damper, and those are the dynamic effects, as they are linked to how the wheel is turned.
    Spring force is how the wheel goes to its centre position but also how it can go away from the centre.
    For instance, when turning it is used to give the feeling of how strong the wheel tends to self align if the driver does not force the wheel to turn.
    It serves as well to give the feeling of how the tires react when passing on kerbs, trenches, water, etc. when the wheel is being turned. Although these forces come also from Periodic, they can be combined with Spring in order to give the feeling of how different those details are transmitted to the driver according to the wheel position, speed or acceleration.
    For example, if the car crosses a puddle when going straight, the only force that might be felt is the lightness of the force on the wheel, but if the puddle is on the corner, the wheel can either be pulled to the centre or away of centre, to give the fell of how unbalanced the car is due to the puddle.

    Damper is the friction felt on the wheel while it is moving left or right. It serves to change the strength on the wheel when turning and serves to give the feeling of grip the tire has, becoming lighter or stronger depending on wheel speed, position and acceleration. Combined with Spring it also gives the forces felt, for example, when the car passes over kerbs, bumps or crests, changing the force required to turn the wheel on those conditions, that can lead to feeling the suddenly there is less or more resistance when turning the wheel.
    As the name implies - damper - it also controls how fast the spring forces are felt. When Damper is set to 0% the Spring forces are very fast and, at least for me, it seems to make the car behaviour very digital, with almost no force progression, it's either on or off (thus digital feeling). Surely it will feel that the reaction to wheel input is faster, after all there is no damper progression, but the forces (the friction) that allow feeling the tire progression are lost.

    Forcefeedback is certainly dependent on how each one reacts to the forces felt on the wheel and how each one prefers to feel those forces, the fact is that those forces can either be more or less present depending on how they are set in CP.
     
  14. This is something I'm worrying too. Even those historics just rotates when you steer the wheel which isn't exactly how it should be.
     
    jaxx_za likes this.
  15. nolive72

    nolive72 Gamer

    TS PC user here

    the suggestions to alter ffb force in the Game input folder in combination with adjusting SAT in the game settings worked for me.

    I had a run in NZ stage with the Mini and finally I could feel the road and oh boy do these stones hurt lol)

    its much more physically challenging now to cope with the torque from my wheel though but I really like DR2 now.funky to go back to a Track Sim like ACC after a 2hr session like I had lats night
     
  16. Raklödder

    Raklödder Simracer

    [​IMG]

    This is what I was afraid of and it's quite sad really, being a big rally fan and all, but I guess Codemasters just can't be bothered.

    Lackluster ffb, average tarmac physics, always online drm and lack of content; having been turned into a jigsaw dlc puzzle from day one.
     
  17. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    All of the above is true ^

    But I started to think about this... how many options do rally fans really have? Richard Burns Rally, Dirt Rally 1 and Dirt Rally 2. That's literally it. Okay WRC7 is imo decent, but many refuse to even try it.

    If they fix the FFB, then it's imo a 100% nobrainer for rally fans. Even with the online only. Even if the physics aren't absolutely top notch Assetto Corsa physics, even if the cars don't rotate correctly. It's as good as rally gets, because it doesn't get any better.. The physics are improvement over Dirt Rally 1 in every way. On tarmac small improvement, on gravel notable improvement.

    WRC8 (in September) might beat Dirt Rally 2 if they improve FFB, sound and further improve the physics. They said they aim to make it more realistic than WRC7. But I'm pretty sure no matter how good it is, simracers will shoot it down without trying. And it won't have historic cars
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  18. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    Regarding FFB, by Codemaster staff (their community manager) from official forums:

    "Hi all,

    Thanks for all of your feedback so far. Just to let you know, we're working on a patch to address some of the most pressing issues that have been raised here. As soon as I have notes on confirmed fixes, I'll share them with you ASAP.

    We're also looking into FFB as a priority, as we're aware a lot of you have raised concerns about how this feels. However, we just want to make clear that there is no easy fix for this; anything we change will affect all vehicles, surfaces and peripherals, so we have to be very thorough to ensure any changes we make will be positive across the board.

    Cheers,
    Christina"

    https://forums.codemasters.com/topic/34816-dirt-rally-20-v11-found-a-bug-post-it-here/?page=15

    Make of that what you will. They recognized also the sliding physics issues in Dirt 4, and said they "could look into it" but would "not be an easy fix".... and nothing happened.
     
    LeDude83, Andrew_WOT and Luis Branco like this.
  19. I bought the game yesterday and I was shocked how good it was! :)

    There still are those Codemasters physics troubles (Car grips like hell when you just throw it completely sideways and even when you should lose the car completely, just a flick of a wheel and you're fine.) which is slightly frustrating because otherwise the handling is really, re-ally good. There are also some very clear physics inaccuracies like R5 rally car going 200km/h. Because of the 5 speed gearbox limitation top speeds of the real cars are somewhere around 175-185km/h depending of the final drive used. Haven't checked but I guess there are still handbrake in Group B cars too.

    But boy that game looks beautiful! :eek: It is by a huge margin the best looking racing game I've ever seen. When you disable bloom and motion blur the game becomes so sharp that you can spot leaves in the far distance which is just insane and refreshing if we think about all those new bloomy, gloomy blurfest titles we are used to see these days. Big thumbs up for Codies!

    Sounds are also ranging from good to really good. Some cars sounds a bit 'generic' but some are just eargasmic. Still those crashing and bottoming sounds are quite bad but the rest of the sound scheme is really impressive.

    I can see myself enjoying the game for quite some time.

    And last but not least, I really, really like the FFB, atleast on gravel!

    Edit: Couple more words about the FFB. Unlike DR1 it was perfectly balanced from the get go. I never managed to make DR1 feel good on a DD wheel but DR2 was almost instant love. It needs quite a bit of hardware damping but the overall balance of the forces are really good by default. DR1 was either wrist braking jolt machine or a vibrator on steroids. All of the most important forces were just a mess. DR2 just gives you natural feeling SAT combined with bigger suspension movements which overall just feels very natural.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
    jaxx_za likes this.
  20. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    Hmm funny how opinions differ, many seem to have issues with FFB and how "smooth" if feels on every surface. Maybe OSW with tweaking (?) feels better? And I guess suspension should filter out some road noise, I don't think the wheel should vibrate constantly on gravel, that's annoying too. And would easily drown out the useful information. But it could use.. something? I don't like how cattle grids make the FFB go haywire for example, feels canned

    However the gravel handling and sound indeed is really good, love the group B cars especially Peugeot 205 T16 evo 2, it's just brutal lol. Ability to steer with throttle, using brakes to get the car to rotate.. it's all there. And SAT feels indeed natural. Tarmac handling is not imo as convincing, but most of the rallies are gravel anyway
     
    jaxx_za likes this.
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