1. Do you need support for Assetto Corsa Competizione? Please use the proper forum below and ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Logs" folder in your c:\users\*youruser*\AppData\Local\AC2\Saved. The "AppData" folder is hidden by default, check "Hidden items" in your Windows view properties. If you report a crash, ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Crashes" folder in the same directory. Do not post "I have the same issue" in an existing thread with a game crash, always open your own thread. Do not PM developers and staff members for personal troubleshooting and support.
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Discussing AI (no reports)

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Taylan Benker, Mar 20, 2021.

  1. beckylou_1

    beckylou_1 Rookie

    On some corners they are scrubbing off about 20-30mph on the apex; just as they should be transitioning from coasting to accelleration.
    People use the AI as training aids to learn the track so having them not taking a perfect line isn't a great idea.
    But if you're learning from the AI, having them braking hard when they should be going faster is a terrible idea too.
     
    FastFred likes this.
  2. chksix

    chksix Hardcore Simmer

    LOL There was a lengthy discussion about braking on apex in another thread recently... :p
     
    After_Midnight likes this.
  3. I suspect he means that the AI drops back significantly in the two or three seconds after it has been passed, not for the rest of the race. This happens in Assetto Corsa aswell.
     
    After_Midnight likes this.
  4. LATE4APEX

    LATE4APEX Alien

    I would agree with that, as I have already posted, if you are able to catch and pass an AI car, then its just common sense that AI car would then fall back at a similar pace difference that you caught it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  5. LATE4APEX

    LATE4APEX Alien

    Further to above, AI will close the gap to you after you have passed it, IF you are being held up by other AI cars fighting for example, as it should be.

    Otherwise, as explained, obviously the gap will not close again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  6. FastFred

    FastFred Gamer

    Agreed, Silverstone onto every straight, especially the Wellington straight. The AI ruins the enjoyment of the track for me. Zolder onto the back straight, Zandvoort onto pit straight, Spa onto Kemmel straight, and worse out of Courbe Paul Frere, to name a few... It's almost like the single player game is designed to be an arcade overtaking game with hard core sim physics.

    Then there is the blue flag behaviour which is just dangerous. If the blue flag behaviour was intended to educate rookie drivers, as many claim the AI is only a training aid, well the mind boggles! Hard braking on the racing line in, and an on the exit of corners. Even on straights you are forced to avoid them. They should, mid straight move off line, lift (not brake) to allow you to pass. All other blue flag behaviour should be removed so they behave normally in corners and series of corners. Overtaking them then would be much more predictable and remove race ending incidents.

    Furthermore, there is the well discussed inability of the AI to judge the players corner entry speed. If you make a mistake on entry with AI close behind they just ram you and continue to push you out of their way. Absolutely no attempt is made to avoid contact, they just take their intended path and speed with no consideration of the player's car whatsoever.

    The AI in ACC is by far the worst aspect of an otherwise excellent racing simulator. For those of us that have very poor internet connections, (money can't buy me a good one otherwise I would) and online racing is not an option, please improve the AI. Clearly the game was intended to be played offline otherwise there would be no AI or the woeful "career mode."

    I know this is quite a critical post, but I would genuinely like the AI to improve as the game is otherwise outstanding. Not to mention the fact it's another 4 years at least until the planned fibre optic upgrade to my internet connection happens...
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  7. Burnleyhome

    Burnleyhome Racer

    I personally like the AI and their level.
    I started with them at 90% and now around 95% and 100% on some tracks where they are slow (Imola).
    I find they brake earlier than me and not as hard, which is nice as it gives me some room to ensure I don't plough into the back of them.
    I don't have problems with their apex speeds as they take it slow to maximize exit speed.
    Their exit speed is not the fastest as it feels like I have more power than them.

    I figured (and probably wrong with my assumption) that the lower the skill level, the less braking and throttle they can use, which is why they brake earlier than me for corners and cannot get on the power as much.

    When I start at race at P2 and my race pace is similar to P1, then I find that I have a hard time keeping up with them and do not have a problem with their speeds throughout corners. I could cheat and divebomb since you know that they will slow down for you, but thats not the point of racing against them.

    Quick question is how much faster is your race pace than the AI?
     
    LATE4APEX likes this.
  8. FastFred

    FastFred Gamer

    I typically run 3 or 6hr races with x4 time - plenty of time to really learn the circuit and car! I try to set the AI so I qualify mid pack which typically means 96-99 strength and 95 aggression, Had the game a couple months and having done the 18 championship am now midway through the 19 championship. It took me a while to realise the AI qualify with 3/4 of a tank of fuel wheas I initially ran only 5 laps worth and the best brakes, which ment I was slow in the races comparatively and often rear ended on corner entry, AI set too high! I now qualify as they do with my race setup and 3/4 fuel. So in answer to your question, the fastest AI are .5 to 1 second faster. When I run out of AI headroom it'll be time to try a new car!
     
    underd0g likes this.
  9. I do not own ACC (and therefore cannot comment about the AI in the game), but I have always considered the AI in Assetto Corsa to be unrealistic compared to older games like GT Legends and GTR2.
     
  10. LATE4APEX

    LATE4APEX Alien

    So watched some AI in car last night, not that anybody cares. :p

    AI do some times lightly tap the brakes at late corner entry, while still applying throttle, but are hard on the throttle with no braking at corner apex.
    Light late braking at corner entry is not unusual.
    Did not observe anything like a loss of 40K on corner exit, due to a light tap on corner entry.

    This is not unusual,... slow in fast out.

    If AI was slow on corner entry AND slow on exit, any semi competent driver would NOT be held up, and should not have any problem passing the AI by the next corner, so really a non issue.
    If how to do this needs to be explained, please let me know.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
    Taylan Benker likes this.
  11. As i motioned in my previous post "very slow in" and fast out for low level difficulties. Other than that i do not notice anything awkward about their brakes.

    Some sim arcade titles successfully managed to add every driver some unique strengths and weaknesses, they can become hostile or more aggressive against certain drivers etc. In ACC as far as i noticed there are only two types of drivers, followers; which follows the car in front all the time and occasional poor challengers which attempt to overtake at straights but fail all the time. This turns AI races into "follow the leader" or "overtake gauntlet" type of practice. Bumping cars scheme of sim arcades does not fit well in sim races but adjustments can be easily implemented. such as:

    a)A dynamic aggression setting/ variation ie battling to take back the position for at least two laps,
    b)At least a few different driver types which prefer taking different lines ie safe, agressive late /early braker etc.
    c) In championship mode ; attacking and defending harder if the other driver is around the same place in leaderboard
    d)Mistake proneness in relation to their driver category and aggression settings. ie spinning or going out of track at some corners while trying to overtake or catchup. Or you follow them within 0.2-0.5 sec for several laps or vice versa.
    e)Anxiety and focus loss. In case of "c", "d" will increase as well. Also being overtaken or making a mistakes will increase "d" as well.
    f) Some random poor / extraordinary starts which resulted with 4+ position changes. (grid order is more or less the same as their race speed and the order do not change much for whole race, no battle to gain position etc) reverse grid is fun but does not make sense to me and cause a lot of chaos as well.
     
    earlyapex likes this.
  12. FastFred

    FastFred Gamer

    ^^


    "Any competent driver should not be held up or have any problems passing."

    That is the problem, there is no battle. It's simply too easy to pass.

    There is no need for the AI to be braking in the final turn at Zandvoort or Radillion/Courbe Paul Frere and many others. Throttle modulation possibly, not braking. To be slow in fast out you need to be flat and stay flat way before the apexes of such corners!
     
  13. If average AI laptimes are equal or slightly below your PB, passing is not that easy. If you think it is; you need to increase difficulty and aggression. if you have been setting it to 110/100 and still think it is easy, it means you are in alien territory and you should not bother with AI anyway.:)
     
    b3nje909 and LATE4APEX like this.
  14. If you want a race offline, racing the AI is your only option.
     
  15. LATE4APEX

    LATE4APEX Alien

    My response was regarding complaining that AI holds up a driver by taping the brakes on some corner entry.
    Why would some one complain that a car taped the brakes on corner entry, if that was the case, he shouldn't be that close, knowing AI would do that.
    Knowledgeable drivers know that you don't follow that type of driving close, you lay back and drive by on exit.

    "flat and stay flat way before the apexes",... is NOT slow in fast out.

    The term means that the driver makes sure he is SLOW enough on entry, to be apply and maintain full throttle from the apex on through the rest of the corner.

    I don't know how many corners on race tracks that allow you to be "flat and stay flat way before the apexes", unless of course one would have so much understeer dialed into his set up, that it wouldn't matter how one would enter a corner.
    But the end result would be SLOW.

    In my opinion.

    If its, "It's simply too easy to pass", why even bother racing AI ?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
  16. I agree, besides there are so many ppl that prefer to race offline as well. My comment was not " do not race against AI" . The lap times of the highest setting are better than RL world records and almost unrealistically fast. If one thinks that he/she can pass them easily than it means no sim and AI will satisfy them.

    On the other hand, there are other options to make them harder to overtake as mentioned in my previous post instead of using the pure speed as the only method of setting the difficulty. Anything beyond these will make the app arcade and not a sim anymore.
     
  17. FastFred

    FastFred Gamer

    Fair enough.
    I'm fully aware of how slow in, fast out works thanks, the corners I refer to are slow corners followed by a flat corner that the AI do not take flat, they brake at or just before the apex for no reason. This leads to a cheap overtake.

    Two more examples, Silverstone the kink before the old pit straight and again the kink before the Wellington straight. No need for braking like the AI, flat all the way! I simply wish to point out that there is room for improvement with the AI and that here are some examples of where improvement can be made. Blue flag behaviour in corners is another area that improvement could be made.

    As explained earlier in the thread:

    My internet connection is 2.5Mb down, 0.25Mb up with at best a 200ms ping. Even if I got on a server there is no doubt I would be instantly kicked for ruining everyones fun with lag! I pay the same now for my poor internet (rural) as I did when I lived in London for 10Mb, 1Mb, 15ms. That however is another axe to grind, for which, this ain't the place.

    Back to the point though, it would be good to feel as if one earned the overtake, rather than exploiting poor AI. I am not an alien, and as soon as I've exceeded 100 AI strength, if ever, I will change things to learn a new car.
     
  18. LATE4APEX

    LATE4APEX Alien

    Agree.

    As I have mentioned, I don't think ACC AI has any "defense" coding, that aspect of ACC AI would help to bring ACC offline racing into another dimension.
    Although probably not very easy to accomplish, definitely way above my capabilities.

    ACC AI already reacts to you if you are in front, but doesn't seam to react to you if you are behind.

    And as far as ACC AI sometimes taping the brakes before the apex, I don't think that is why AI is easy to pass on some corners, its simply AI is not fast in those corners.

    I have watched AI replays, and some times the code actually will have throttle AND a tap of the brake at corner entry, it appears to be used to settle/point the car.
     
  19. FastFred

    FastFred Gamer

    Dunno what game you play but acc has AI options for up to 100/100 strength/aggression! Typically I race them at 95-98 and can pass AI that are faster than me in the discussed turns. However they fail to respect the fact I am slower then them elsewhere, particularly apexes, where they delight in pushing me into a spin. They cannot overtake by outbraking and without any racing etiquette barge their way through. Quite a frustrating and tedious experince. Unfortunately AI is currently my only option due to a poor internet connection.
     
    Steve Redfox likes this.
  20. FastFred

    FastFred Gamer

    Indeed it would be a welcome addition.
     
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