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Discussing Unreal

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by el_goe, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. el_goe

    el_goe Rookie

    For what I've read ACC uses the deferred shading path present in UE4. Is there a reason not to use the forward one? That should enable MSAA without losing the current AA options, and should perform and look better in VR.

    Is it only for the lack of some effects like SSR an SSAO when using that path?
     
    ohyeah2389 likes this.

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  3. ChrisR

    ChrisR Alien

    It could be planned.
     
  4. ZioYuri78

    ZioYuri78 Hardcore Simmer

    I'm not good at explain technical stuff like this in english, that's why i suggest to watch this video (the number 2) (also the entire series it's pretty good) made by UE4 professional about the difference beetween deferred and forward rendering :)
    https://academy.unrealengine.com/Class-Viewer/RTRendering

    and this just for fun
    https://academy.unrealengine.com/Class-Viewer/rendering_master
     
  5. el_goe

    el_goe Rookie

    I'm well aware of the differences between deferred and forward, thank you. :)

    The thread was more about why not using forward in ACC when it'd help with image quality in VR (I'm biased towards VR 'cause that's how I play :p). It seems that UE4 loses some effects when using forward like the ones mentioned before, but for example AO could be approximated with ao capsules (ue4 allows them in their forward renderer) and SSR is totally doable in a forward engine, there are several examples out there.

    Of course it's not my intention telling them how to do their work, I'm just wondering. :)
     
    ohyeah2389 and Cote Dazur like this.
  6. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    Um, if you're well aware of what deferred and forward shading are then you also know why most games nowadays, including ACC, use deferred.
     
  7. el_goe

    el_goe Rookie

    Most, but not all of them. Several AAA use forward (or variants/hybrids like forward+, clustered shading, etc) like Forza, Doom 2016 and others. UE4 is capable of doing it and encourages its use for VR projects.
     
    ohyeah2389 and Cote Dazur like this.
  8. warth0g

    warth0g Hardcore Simmer

    In a recent interview, Marco implied that, in the future Kunos might drop the Unreal engine and revert to making their own engine, just as they did for AC1. As we know, Unreal has made supporting triples and VR more difficult yet at the same time, it pushed the simulation genre forward with next gen graphics.

    As an ultra wide single screen user, I’m fortunate enough to have avoided the problems that Unreal can bring and have had nothing but great experiences. ACC looks significantly better than any other sim and that really increases the immersion for me. So I’m concerned if they bow to pressure and move away from Unreal.

    But what do you think? Does it make sense to stay the course and remain with Unreal? Or cut their losses and build something custom?
     
    SylverFyre and kro like this.
  9. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    Mixed opinions here.
    Their first attempt with AC was fantastic where some improvements could be made.
    Thankfully the community made these improvements and turned out a great engine.
    Ok, it’s still not as good as Unreal but I think the next version could be there (or there about).

    Having said that, Unreal is tried and tested and they will have learned a lot by using it here. Unreal themselves are making improvements and are listening to the end user so will also only get better.

    It all comes down to time and money I guess.
     
  10. Oblit0r

    Oblit0r Alien

    Marco said that they don't only want to develop products, they want to develop technology aswell. That reason alone is enough for me to say they should drop it.
     
  11. Nao

    Nao Alien

    They need to find a better balance of trying to sell games by graphics hype and by having good other features. They nailed it for AC. And UE4 with all of it's overhead and limitations is definitely not helping here.

    For me next game could even look like LFS (the modern one, with updates).
    Just having a smooth gameplay loop, with no issues, quirks, confusion, and having to do hack jobs or alt-tab every now and then is much more immersive for me than "oh look, a shiny" of the modern graphics. Especially when we got such good sounds already to build up immersion no matter what is on screen.
     
    ohyeah2389, Nahkamarakatti and Octane like this.
  12. JnJ | Rayleigh

    JnJ | Rayleigh Simracer

    I strongly disagree with this particular statement.
    But I'm in agreement with the point you're trying to make. The game can be as pretty as it will, if it doesn't work properly or lacks certain essentials it's no use..
     
    Freddie Seng, mrk1001 and Nao like this.
  13. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    I'd prefer if they concentrated on making a full-featured racing game for once.
     
  14. Metzger

    Metzger Racer

    VR user and I have no issue with UE4 engine. I'd prefer Kunos focus more on the racing part rather than creating new graphics engine. I am sure UE developers will take care on improving the engine further.

    Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk
     
    CmdrCody, SylverFyre, St3fan and 9 others like this.
  15. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    One of the reason, or maybe the reason, Kunos went with an existing engine, in this case UE4, was for convenience to avoid having to work on reinventing their own engine in order to get night, rain, etc....
    With all the challenges Kunos is facing because of UE4, I wonder if they end up better or worse. Working on all the fixes due to UE4 might be more work at the end.
    I drive in VR and I enjoy ACC, but ACC is not the best VR SIM for me. Good enough.
    From my experience with UE4, in VR, both in KartKraft and ACC, I do not see UE4 as a step forward for SIM driving.
    I am looking forward for optimization in performance and graphics in ACC, to have a final opinion, but without optimization, to me, adopting UE4 is not a success.
     
  16. F4celess

    F4celess Gamer

    While UE4 is a engine with a massive potential and definitely the better choice of the existing engines they could have evaluated. I'm on the fence on if they should continue with it or not. The main benefit, and what I believe is the reason they went for UE4, is the open source nature of it. Anyone can go in and edit the source code to adapt the engine to their uses. A lot of AAA games has engines that at one point was essentially Cryengine or Source, but has been modified and changed to the point where it becomes it's own unique engine. In a way that's what Kunos did when they implanted their own physics engine into UE4.

    As a VR user I'd hope their next project caters to that kind of multiple camera rendering, be it through modifying UE4 or a new engine.
     
  17. m_box97

    m_box97 Simracer

    Without numbers regarding how many users actually use VR or triples it's difficult to say in my opinion. I run a single monitor and I have no issue running the game with high graphics (and my GPU is really underperforming in this specific title for his price category) but even if I had to run the game on the lowest settings it would probably look better than AC with everything at max. UE4 allows the devs to focus on the simulation, physics and AI.
     
  18. th3o

    th3o Hardcore Simmer

    I am fine with whatever Kunos decides to go with as i trust them to make the right choice for their Studio and the majority of the sim racing community. I can only say that AC looks still fantastic when everything is maxed out, the sun is sitting low etc, also the models are still incredible (though you can tell that for example the Porsches look a bit better than the models that were the first in the game) and the replays still one of the best in the business. But also ACC is looking damn good and comes across as true next gen graphics for a racing sim. They also keep improving the visuals with every patch and thats great.
    Whatever they end up doing for their next game, i am sure that they will have ACC by the end of its development cycle in the same best condition like AC is now.
     
  19. If only Kunos can collaborate with big guys to build their own engine, like turn10 studios did when yes i want them to change game engine.
    If they are thinking to go s397 or Reiza way i will be against it. Playstation 5 will be focused at vr so Epic Games will be forced to make vr better with unreal engine. I hope Kunos have plans to update Unreal engine builds and use it to update ACC 2 years more at list.
     
  20. bgil66

    bgil66 Alien

    I say yeah KS should finish out SRO contract and then work on their own engine/sim, Stefano I think would have more fun anyway creating :)
     
    Nao likes this.
  21. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Hardcore Simmer

    As long as physics are not compromised to keep eye candy i'm happy with any kind of engine.
    But i will say one thing is that ACC is very very demanding on lowest settings ffs i even lowered the resolution scale to 90% and my gpu and cpu are still running hot PLUS this is only in practice/hotlap mode even with dynamic weather OFF PLUS this situation gets worse at night time.
    Kunos please give us PROPER low settings i don't want anything unnecessary.
     
    ohyeah2389 and Tim Meuris like this.

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