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Driving Technique Discussion

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Karsten Beoulve, Nov 26, 2019.

  1. Oblit0r

    Oblit0r Alien

    It's all tiny mistakes that cost you a lot of time in the end. I want to ask you to analyze your own video, corner for corner and see what you do good/wrong. I think it's better if you understand where and why you're losing time instead of others telling you what to do differently.
     
    Radfahrer likes this.
  2. mikein

    mikein Rookie

    Awesome. Thank you very much.
     
  3. KodiaRok

    KodiaRok Rookie

    Hello Guys

    I am new here and also new to ACC since early last week. I have been playing Simulation Games for many Years now, from MS FS to DCS World, F1 Racing and now ACC. Apart from my Shooter Games, I play Simulation Games for a good and refreshing Challenge, but ACC gives a bit more frustration then motivation. Here is my explanation as of why:

    Me and my friend both bought ACC and we picked Barcelona as our Test Track. I created a Multiplayer Server now just yesterday so we both can drive and exchange information which was prior just done in Single Player Practice runs and communicating over Discord.

    So far I clocked in 22 Hours in ACC and despite running into some Issues with Force Feedback on my Logitech G25 (It's old, I know ;) ) I got it working.

    We picked every Car and drove several dozen Laps in Barcelona to see which Car fits us best. I don't want the fastest or best Racing Car, I just want consistent and improved Lap Times. I finally fell in love with the McLaren 720s, as it felt the best for me and my mate picked the Porsche GT3.

    We watched Videos from Aris, we checked other YouTubers racing and doing especially (Our Focus atm) fast laps on the Barcelona Track. Some seemed like glued to the Track and they "just" use the aggressive Setup.

    Everyone says to pick just Aggressive and go driving without changing anything, but both my McLaren or my mates Porsche just doesnt feel right.

    Then I made some changes last night to the height of the car, and all of a sudden I was able to achieve Lap Times of 1:47:2. Now I know we are around 4-5 Seconds behind the fastest Lap Times on that Track, but we both wonder, after spending so many hours on the same track, using our replay to analyze the track, our braking points, apex, we are kinda stuck now on 1:47 times.

    We used external View of the car to pick our braking points and compared them to other racers through youtube videos and we are simply puzzled as to why we don't improve on our lap times.

    My McLaren sticks now better on the track in corners by just adjusting the car's height slightly, but what else is needed?

    What or when is the point to achieve faster lap times? We drive without any assists and use manual shifting on our wheels.

    So far our conclusion is, that we really need to make adjustments to the aggressive setup of our cars in order to get better lap times, despite some just use default aggressive setup.

    Since ACC does not really have any tutorials and very vague explanation of the car settings, we are kinda puzzled atm.

    Is there a tool outside of ACC that tells us what we do wrong and how we could improve our Car Setup to gain important seconds or less? We saw different Tools but not sure yet if those would help us in any way.

    Any help is greatly appreciated as what we could do better or what we do wrong, and how much more time do we need to invest to drive a final 1:46 times...more practice? adjusting the setup ? Honestly, we don't know.

    Kind Regards
    KR
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  4. ohjeah

    ohjeah Hardcore Simmer

    Wouldn't worry about the setup too much at that point. Much bigger time gains to achieve by just practicing the driving itself.
     
  5. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Alien

    1:47 is quite slow, at this pace you and your friend definitely needs more practice.
    Select aggressive preset,get the tyre pressure into 27.3-27.8 psi zone and just keep on lapping.
    No setup will gain you that many seconds that you are currently losing.
    Set initial target to atleast 1:44:xx (which is still slow)
     
  6. KodiaRok

    KodiaRok Rookie

    Thanks for the Feedback so far.

    It was already not very easy to pick a car that feels right for both me and my mate. Just yesterday we both finally picked our cars that suit our driving style the best.

    Since every Car behaves differently, I feel, as for the McLaren 720s, that I need to brake earlier before going into corners, as in corners I have a real good grip and good acceleration out of the corners, but I could be wrong. It would be kinda beneficial to know where the strong points of each car is for a newbie like us, so we can better concentrate as to where we have to improve to gain a better car handling. I mean like Advantages and Disadvantages of like say a McLaren 720s or my mates Porsche GT3. I struggle in certain parts of the Barcelona Track and loose a lot of time, maybe due to not knowing my car's strong points, if that makes any sense.

    We both use the Aggressive Setup and Tyre pressure is between 27.2-27.9 psi.
     
  7. Rabbitsensei

    Rabbitsensei Racer

    20 Hours is not too much you need a lot more hours to get better. I would also suggest to try out different tracks, it sometimes good to reset and try something new. Since you have spend a lot of time on one track and it can get really frustrating if youre not making progress. Other tracks can be beneficital to learn skills which can help you on Barcelona, for example i suck hard at Spa and im unable to improve my time, i recently did a lot of riding at Brands Hatch and improved my ability to modulate the pedals and coast more and suddenly i was half a second faster on Spa.
    Also do races you have a server so set it up and let other people join, follow other drives in the race and watch where youre losing time. Save the replay and watch a fast guy in your car and analyze his riding. In the end this a Game and you should enjoy it, the goal is to race and not hotlaping alone on a track ;)
     
  8. KodiaRok

    KodiaRok Rookie

    Cheers for your Feedback Rabbitsensei

    I agree, 20 Hours is not a lot. It took me around roughly 100 Hours to know my F/A-18 Hornet in DCS World inside & out.

    Since I havent played any proper Sim Racing Games in many Years, it does feel kinda de-motivating if you are stuck at the same lap times. I raced also on the Brands Hatch Track for a slight change.

    I guess another problem is that we kinda "reset" each other due to trying out different cars. I switched from an Audi R8 to an Aston Martin and then a few hours later, I went back to the Audi and could not drive the same lap times anymore.

    Since all Cars behave differently, which is very cool, it would make the most sense if another, good driver, is driving a Porsche GT3 and a McLaren 720 so we can see how they drive and learn from it.

    Also, we mainly used the Barcelona Track to testdrive different cars, and we got kinda stuck on that track for now :)

    It's an amazing game, but feels so overwhelming with all that information the game gives you.
     
  9. Rabbitsensei

    Rabbitsensei Racer

    It can be quite overhelming and there's a **** ton to learn!

    [​IMG]
    Best thing is now to stick to one car and learn the tracks, i think the Porsche is already a good choice but definitly hard to controll. The Mclaren might be a little bit slower, the only fast Mclaren driver in our league said the car needs some setup tweaking to bet competitive, with the top tier cars. This doesnt mean that you cant learn and improve with the car just be aware that at some point in the future you need to learn in depth setups to be competitve.
    Another thing i noticed that i can have all the information and knowledge about a track but i still need to learn it by feeling it. For some corners i just need to try out different lines and how much i need to brake or steer to get the optimal line.
     
  10. Nao

    Nao Alien

    @KodiaRok The thing with setups is that, the less experienced you are the more you lean on the car to drive itself. So tweaking setup values can make it feel like the car is faster or slower but in reality it isn't, all you are doing is making it drive differently when you are not in control (which is most of the time). Fast drivers use aggressive setup because they are 100% in control and few setup "clicks" here or there won't make any difference, they will manage to drive the car the same way anyway.

    It isn't wrong to setup the car when you are new, but avoid trying making it faster (like more top speed or more grip in corners etc) these cars are already pretty close to optimum out of the gate. The real laptime gains will come with changes that enable better control over the car. Which as others pointed out has a pretty steep learning curve. So don't feel discouraged if it feels like you are going nowhere, thats pretty normal. But having an efficient practice regime is quite important too.

    Stick with one car and track for some time, does not matter which, there will be plenty of time and incentive later to switch. Drive to a point where you can repeat the lap without much differences several times. Drive slow if you have to (as they say: slow is fast!). Then switch stuff around, be it setup, something in the hardware, FoV, weather, track, car, or even driving style, braking points etc. and get comfortable in new situation again. Rinse and repeat, each time gaining small bits and pieces of skills that after a while start forming "general car control". And only when you will have a good sense of car control looking at fastest laps or special setups will bear any effect. Simracing has pretty high skill barrier initially, but after you get through the basics, it starts to be more about knowledge like other simulators. :)

    Also following or looking at other cars not too much faster than you online can be a good idea. Or you could post a video of your driving here and get some tips. That could be a good catalyst for talking about strong/weak points of the car too. GL!
     
    EsxPaul likes this.
  11. KodiaRok

    KodiaRok Rookie

    Good Morning Racers

    @Rabbitsensei

    Yeah that Curve is almost like in DCS World, just slightly different approach. My Mate loves the Porsche GT3 a lot, but he has a bit of trouble controlling it. I noticed that the McLaren isn't the fastest, but thats fine with me.
    Would it help to show the driving line on the tracks at first and then switch the driving line assist off ?? I turned off all possible assists straight away.

    @Nao

    Thanks for your Feedback, I noticed only with some slight changes to the car height, it makes the mclaren more stable and for me more comfortable to drive. I didnt tweak too much of the car.

    Also i noticed now that if I "Push" myself to drive fast, brake late, accelerate quick, I get worse lap times then brake earlier, etc..

    I wanted to see online some McLaren Videos, but there are not a lot of people driving the 720s, probably cause its not a top tier car?`

    I know this may sound stupid, but is there like a good beginner car to start with that is later on also competitive ?? Or does it come down to personal preference and handling of the car ? I see mostly Videos of Lambos, Audi or Aston Martin or even the Mercedes AMG or the Porsche, ofc.

    On a sidenote, both me and my friend will be racing on my server today to gain more experience. I will then use the replay and save it with a possible upload on youtube and share it here with you guys if that is ok.

    Cheers for all the good Advice and Feedback so far.

    KR
     
  12. Rabbitsensei

    Rabbitsensei Racer

    Driving line can help but i found that the marks for braking are sometimes a little bit off and i tend to not learn reference points for braking, with the line turned on. Accelerating earlier is usually more important than braking late. Reason for that is a lot of slow corners are before long straights, so if you brake late you will only gain some time in the corner, but how good you come out of the corner will affect the whole straight which you will spend more time one.
    Top tier cars in my opinion are the Porsche, AMG, Audi, Aston, Ferarri all others are still capable of winning but most of the other cars require a little bit more work to be fast.
     
  13. KodiaRok

    KodiaRok Rookie

    Alright, cheers :)

    I have been driving almost all morning and now almost cracked the 1:46:xx ....but for some strange reason in the Lambo Huracan .

    Can i just share the Replay File (rpy) here ?? It's from Lap 9 to 10 where I did that time.
     
  14. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Alien

    Lamborghini is quite good too
    Mclaren and lexus are very close to being top infact on some tracks they are easily capable of winning.
    Mclaren lacks power though but it is one of the safest mid engine/rear engine car in game so you can attack corners especially on entry.
     
  15. KodiaRok

    KodiaRok Rookie

    I attached my Replay as a Zip to make it smaller in Size.
    Not sure if you can just easily load and watch it, I thought I give it a go anyway.

    Lap 9 it starts till Lap 10.

    Hope it works :)
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Nao

    Nao Alien

    Pretty nice lap that 9 :)

    Some things i've noted:
    - Trailbrake till apex to get rid of understeer - keep very small amount of brakes till the moment of adding throttle. Thou this is diminished when you are too tight/slow going in (like often in T5) so while the best laptime comes from hugging the apex as close as possible, give yourself some room when practicing by going in a bit faster, deliberately aiming to miss the apex by a meter or two, so that you can learn to fix inconsistencies in driving with pedals instead of only steering. This skill will come handy later. Also this is a good place to note that practice isn't always about trying to do the fastest laptime. You have to give yourself some space to experiment where you are lacking and focus on that while disregarding laptimes sometimes.
    - Downshift more aggressively when you see you braked too late. Having a calm/slow downshift is good, but learn to change it when the need arises. Also try more rearward brake bias - change it till you start oversteering too much and dial back a few %, then continue to tweak this as you improve. Default brake bias is only good for drivers that are confident into pushing the car hard, but IMHO when practicing it should be lower (on all cars).
    - Combine throttle and steering inputs (slower corners and chicanes). You need to unwind the steering as you add throttle, because most of the time the car ends up sliding which makes it unstable for the direction change (chicanes) or accelerate poorly (out of slow corner). Right now you are doing it reactionary which is too slow or not at all. In some unstable cars, for example porsches over bumps, it may be even needed to unwind the steering first and then add throttle. *
    And some good:
    - You start to brake early, which isn't ideal but gives you a lot of opportunity to control entry speed (which is super important). So keep at it, with more practice you'll be able to brake later. Thou when braking too early you tend to overshoot the corner, so try looking into making some braking points for yourself and focus on braking at the exact same point every lap.
    - Your lines are pretty good, it just needs practice to increase consistency and then to push the car harder, there isn't anything "oh this is wrong" that i can see. Keep it up! :)


    * - in general i'd say that for modern racecars, the main purpose of steering is to control the slip angle of the REAR tyres. You have to be always conscious of what the rear is doing and use front wheels to rotate the whole car so that the rear is happy. To put it in a "food for thought" line: the perfect steering position for turning as hard as possible is straight.
     
  17. Burnleyhome

    Burnleyhome Racer

    Welcome...
    I started driving the Audi, then it would spin when I took a corner too fast, I changed to the McLaren. It was great hotlapping, but frustrating in a race as it doesn't have the power than the Audi did. I changed to the Aston, which for me is forgiving and has the power, so I can make up for my deficiencies in the corners.

    When driving the McLaren and Aston (1:47's normally in both at Barca, but can occasionally get to 1:46's. This is with over 200hrs, so you're doing awesome), I would turn up the tire sound to 100% and everything else to 50%. This is so I could hear sliding, as when you lose grip, you need to do something to get it back. Barca isn't that bad (for my driving) apart from the last chicane.
    I found that Misano or Paul Ricard were my worst for sliding, so I practiced to reduce it and this should give me better overall car control for all tracks. Its nice to keep the tire graphic green instead of yellow.

    Other practice for me was doing SP races and start from the back. I would keep increasing the AI so I could get up to 15th (21 on the grid) on a 30 min race. For me, this helps with consistency under pressure and ability to follow a car and still hit your braking / steering points. Nice thing about AI is that they are VERY consistent in lines and laptimes. Also they don't defend in corners, but will go side by side with you if you don't get infront of them enough (100% aggro).
    I run bara with AI = 95%, so you should be good with that as a test run.

    Have fun guys.
     
  18. KodiaRok

    KodiaRok Rookie

    Finally I have time to post again :)

    My mate who drives the Porsche GT3 just told me today, after he drove 2x30 Full practice rounds with the AI and then went back to Barcelona, he did a 1:45:5, which I am still stuck with a 1:47:0. He learned his car a lot better he said and tested out the brake late, brake early, accelerate quicker thingy.

    @Nao

    Thanks for your Feedback, I am kinda surprised I am doing actually not that bad. Your Feedback has helped and I will continue to push my car harder. It kinda "ticked" in my mates head, it should follow suit with me shortly too as I had no time to race since Sunday. I will post back my results :)

    @Burnleyhome

    Thanks for your Feedback too. You are right, thats what my friend did and he got a lot better in knowing his track, which is very important.

    Need to get back on the track now :)
     
  19. KodiaRok

    KodiaRok Rookie

    Ok it get's better now :)

    First started with 1:46:8 tonight...nothing above 1:47....now I drive 1:45:681 as my best lap in Barcelona
     
  20. KodiaRok

    KodiaRok Rookie

    Ok it get's better now :)

    First started with 1:46:8 tonight...nothing above 1:47....now I drive 1:45:681 as my best lap in Barcelona.

    The following Lap I was about to do a 1:44:8, then my Logitech G25 gave up on me...looks like the left motor burned out :(
     

    Attached Files:

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