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  2. As part of our continuous maintenance and improvements to Assetto Corsa Competizione we will be releasing small updates on a regular basis during the esports season which might not go through the usual announcement process detailing the changes until a later version update where these changes will be listed retrospectively.
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Dynamic Weather Discussion

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by MsportDAN, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. Aristotelis

    Aristotelis Will it drift? Staff Member KS Dev Team

    What is "merely damp" means? Do we have an exact measurement or do we go by "eyesight" and "personal idea"
    What does it means very overheated and overpressured? Do we have any numbers? Numbers of the real car tyres?
    What ambient and track temperature in the real track and what on the ACC track?
    What level of ABS and TC are used in real life and ACC? What kind of driving style?
    Did you go on the outside line on the ACC track to search for wet track as in the real video?
    etc.
    etc.
    etc.

    What I mean by that is do we see this from an engineering/meteorologist/physicist point of view? Because if we do, we miss tons of proper data, we can't be rigorous, so it's all "in the eye of the beholder"

    If it's "in the eye of the beholder" then we have to see this from the drivers perspective. The driver doesn't know and shouldn't care about all that. Even him though should have an idea of what his tyre pressures are. Is overinflated by 2, 5, 10 psi? Makes a big difference. Don't just stare at the tyre hud and see orange colour. How are your laptimes? Can you stay together with the adversaries or do you lose time? This will make you decide if you need to pitstop or not. With more experience, drivers can also judge if the waste of time is enough for tyre changing or not.

    Sorry if I sound a bit aggressive, it's not my intention at all, I apologise in advance. Still, this is again a typical simracing mentality of trying to control everything by looking at colours and numbers. It's not how it works in reality. In reality you check your laptimes, you check if you're comfortable or not, you check adversaries laptimes and you take a risk. You cannot be in realife and measure the wetness of the track, the wind, the humidity, the temperature and go to pirelli and say "you know what, your tyres are overheating too fast for the conditions". It's a chaotic system it just doesn't work like this. Pirelli engineers will probably reply to you "well change them to slicks or go slower". Certainly also you cannot look at a video of a specific day, then look at the sim and say, hey this is not EXACTLY what happened there. We are not creating predefined scripted situations. Sure if the discrepancy is like 10 laps of difference, it's one thing, but if it's 2,3, it's another.

    tl;dr
    There are not 2 identical situations in real life on the same track. The systems are chaotic. How could we simulate the exact situations or even judge them just by "eye" without data? We don't. What we do is collecting statistical data and get close to those (not by eye). Then a graphics designer will try to also get close "by eye" which might be different than another person life experience or even perception of what a wet track or bad weather is. But still valid as long the discrepancies are not big.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
    Pack34, martcerv, baboon and 8 others like this.
  2. pankykapus

    pankykapus KS Dev Team Staff Member KS Dev Team

    The way the weather model is designed does not make scripting possible.
     
    baboon, Cote Dazur and Cornflex like this.
  3. Gopher04

    Gopher04 Simracer

    Is the problem of the AI not pitting to change to wets or vice versa still being looked into?
    Also I done a SP race the other night and it started to rain for the last half of the race, half the AI did pit for wets including me as they were needed, yet I couldn't run well on the wets as they were just burning up.
     
  4. Ninety3

    Ninety3 Rookie

    I agree that weather shouldn't be scripted, but I do think that it would be good idea to include an option setting that prevents thunderstorms. I love wet races, particularly races which are both wet and dry or somewhere in between but the appearance of a thunderstorm just seems to lead to so many people quitting a lobby, it's a shame.
     
    Metzger likes this.
  5. Aristotelis

    Aristotelis Will it drift? Staff Member KS Dev Team

    In v1.0.7 the AI should pit properly to change to wets. There is a always a bit of randomness in their decision. If the rain and wetness is relatively low, some AI might decide to go to the pits to change tyres, while others might take the risk and stay outside.

    Again as said before, probably the conditions were right in the middle of slicks/wet tyres and with the cars lapping the racing line got even more dry. In such situations, both tyres are a problem, you either get the risk on staying on slicks and wait for the racing line to dry (even if it rains a bit), or you go to wets but have to deal with overheating and need to search for wet spots to cool them down, or drive slower.

    If you get a situation where there is a blatant error in your opinion, please post it with some replay or video, logs and results, so that we can have a look, thank you very much.
     
  6. Captain Barracuda

    Captain Barracuda Hardcore Simmer

    It's certainly worth noting that real race teams/drivers get tyre choices wrong all the time and it's usually only 1 that gets the timing and choice 100% right bringing them victory. No matter what the sim does, what indicators and data it gives, we won't get it right all the time.
     
  7. henkjansmits

    henkjansmits Simracer

    OK my decision process is now:

    Look at 5 mins weather prediction UI element. Storm and more than 10 mins left?
    YES: pit and go to rain tyres or start on rain tyres
    NO: slicks

    Should be called "storm tyres" :)

    Slight modifiers:
    I currently have a flatspot (pit)
    Spa (endless pit straight) (don't pit)
    Ferrari with annoying flashing lights behind that will rear-end me soon (pit)
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
    eracerhead likes this.
  8. Captain Barracuda

    Captain Barracuda Hardcore Simmer

    I definitely understand your point, but you've basically just listed much of the stuff I like about racing ;)
     
  9. MsportDAN

    MsportDAN Alien

    Aris is right about the sim racing mentality and it doesnt just stop at weather. Same can be said for tyre models and slip angles and all that.

    @Aristotelis

    Racing drivers do everything within feel and lap times Why can't sim racers be the same. Unless your In f1 then u have God knows how many cpus running your race for you. And that why I hate f1.
     
    Aristotelis and david m like this.
  10. WallyM

    WallyM Alien

    It's a fair point, because to be honest I fell into the trap of looking at the tyre HUD and seeing bright red and big middle bars and thinking I was going to die, even though I was still lapping OK.
     
    Aristotelis likes this.
  11. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    I have been trying to find a dynamic weather setting that mixes things up a bit with some dry sessions and the odd rain session ideally some heavy rain but never the dreaded yellow storm icon. ;) The settings below seem to have achieved this atm with a good variety of weather from full dry to drizzle heavy rain and even the odd white storm (which is still just raceable)

    Code:
    {
        "track": "nurburgring",
        "eventType": "E_6h",
        "preRaceWaitingTimeSeconds": 100,
        "postQualySeconds": 30,
        "postRaceSeconds": 30,
        "sessionOverTimeSeconds": 150,
        "ambientTemp": 17,
        "trackTemp": 22,
        "cloudLevel": 0.2,
        "rain": 0.2,
        "weatherRandomness": 2,
     "sessions": [{
       "hourOfDay": 11,
       "dayOfWeekend": 3,
       "timeMultiplier": 2,
       "sessionType": "Q",
       "sessionDurationMinutes": 10
      },
      {
       "hourOfDay": 18,
       "dayOfWeekend": 3,
       "timeMultiplier": 2,
       "sessionType": "R",
       "sessionDurationMinutes": 20
      }
     ],
     "configVersion": 1
    }
    Using any higher "weather randomness" tends to get the yellow storm with even these cloud settings. Raising cloud and rain much beyond this also had the same effect but so far in maybe 5 qualy and race loops it mixed things up nice. It would be good if temps were also a bit more variable as they tend to be around the same depending on cloud levels. Will test this in our 2 hour league race Monday and see what happens then.

    One thing I did notice is the most requested feature from AC was night and rain, and amazingly as soon as it starts to rain most leave even the guys that have some decent pace. The rain driving is done so well in ACC too other then when it gets that yellow storm and I don't think much more then a red flag would help.

    I know some people have the wiper bug where it doesnt fully clear the bottom left corner of the screen. Seems mostly people in VR but I have never actually had this running a single screen with effects on Epic. It could be a certain effects setting or VR rendering causing that bug, but if you have it then heavy rain racing really isnt much point.
     
  12. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    I like driving in the rain, I just don't really race online.
     
  13. Metzger

    Metzger Racer

    +1, May be have the option to set up a proper weather forecast with some randomness included e.g. cloudy with 30% rain precipitation 2mm, or clear day with 10% possible thunderstorms 4mm(typical summer weather isn't it :)) so the weather will not deviate from the forecast too much.
     
    Vasracing likes this.
  14. MsportDAN

    MsportDAN Alien

    I like rain in sims even from the race 07 days acc I will say has done it the best so far. Rf2 is good but very bugged etc
     
  15. th3o

    th3o Hardcore Simmer

    Rain for the Red Bull Ring just got added to GT Sport and to be quite honest it looks really good, the movement of the spray is very believable. It could be a bit more spray maybe? But would be sweet to achieve this kind of spray behavior for ACC too.
     
    baboon likes this.
  16. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    The spray there actually doesnt look that special, the drops on the windscreen are done well. But the spray from cars ahead looks more like smoke for some reason and its so light its barely noticeable. Its much worse in light rain on a public road at slower speeds of 100kmh then that, at racing speeds on a track with a fair few puddles ACC does much better IMHO.
     
  17. baboon

    baboon Alien

    Looks good but the spray seems to be more like a constant small light cloud and not really changes when the cars go over puddles.
     
  18. GRFOCO

    GRFOCO Alien

    imho it's not so good, tbh.
    Considering that it's all scripted, that nothing is dynamic (rain intensity, track wetness, ecc...), the final result is "average" to me.
    Yes, it runs into a poor ps4, not an high end pc, but i'm talking about overall design, not about "pure" graphics".

    My 2c
     
    Cornflex likes this.
  19. MsportDAN

    MsportDAN Alien

    no fix in 1.08 for the constant wet weather races on random?
     
  20. Cornflex

    Cornflex Gamer

    Unfortunately not.:(
     
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