PHYSICS ECU maps implementation

If ,... "they have zero idea what they actually are",... then "people" shouldn't be posting, should they.

Yes I agree that it would nice that people of every language on the planet could click on the antiroll bar and get an explanation of what happens if you increase or decrease the stiffness, but this is NOT going to happen, get over it.

I think it would be better if "drivers" got used to searching to learn about race car physics etc., and then gain a better understanding of the whys and how's of the subject.

Something like a golden rule in race car setup, make big enough changes in a setting to actually experience what the result is, that sort of thing is NOT going to be explained in every language on a racing sim.

I myself, prefer to understand the reason and result is from making a setup change.

Search and ye shall find.

Will not respond to childish insults, otherwise, have at it.

 

No matter how good an idea it would be to have maps and pads explained in the game I made my peace with it - it's not happening.
How about GT4 maps? Can we have some data on it please?

 

Well, the game is for sure not translated to ALL languages.
Hell even Hungarian is missing, yet one of the devs is Hungarian.
I do not know how many languages the game is translated to but I think maybe 6-8 of them.
As it is already translated to those languages, the contacts are there for the translators. That cannot be an issue.
It costs money, yes, but I bet it would be less then $1 per player, and that can be easily built into the price of the next DLC.

Also, as much as this game tries to simulate many things, it certainly does not simulate EVERYTHING.
(Some cars are missing the front indicators, or the high beams, who knows what they are "missing" under the hood.)
Thus turning to real life information might not produce the same results. Not to mention, that getting information for example on how F1 cars work, might not be accurate to GT3 or GT4 cars. So when people start searching they will not find accurate information.
And you know, some people have a life, and can only play 1-2 hours a day or maybe a week, and I do not think they want to waste another hour for searching for:
"Hmm, if I click here, what should that do."
Yet not having access to this information, is making you less competitive, as you cannot tailor the car to your driving style.
I was still unable to figure out why the Ferrari (my favorite car in the game) sometimes looses the back mid corner. But not having that, would make me much faster in a race, as i usually loose 1 sec every 2-3 laps with that.

So I do not agree with you that people should search for this information, as the information they find can be totally misleading.

I actually deleted (and asked for a refund) for ACC once, because I was unable to configure my wheel within the 2 hours. - Not even try the game. - As it was totally undrivable.
Because even things like Gain, and Hertz, and similar are not explained!
Yet I felt the potential in the game, so I downloaded a copy form the "black market" to have time to actually find the proper settings for my wheel.
Once I found those (took me a day I think), did I purchase the game again.
But most people won't do that. I only did this, because I absolutely love GT racing. If this would be a game like AC, I would not have given it a 2nd try.

 

I think thoses kind of software (simulation) is not for you.
You Always have to look for info,tuto, here and there when using a sim.

 

Sometimes i dont understand people. Even when the developers say: thats our decision, we have thought bout it and do it this way, they cant accept and discuss and ride a dead horse.
On track i often hit the wall and cant improve, nothing helps, no improvement.
Atm there are a lot of people writing things here in the forum where i am hitting a wall too. Maybe i am a complete idiot and to stubborn, silly, arrogant. Dunno.

 

There are streams of @Aristotelis where he drives his custom setup and tries the aggressive one, and is faster with that one on first try.. Setups are only 5% of the game, maybe even less.

I see you don't have the understanding of GT3 and this game is not for you.

Some cars, for example the endurance versions of and AMG GT3, don't have high beams in real life, so they don't have them in-game. Some cars don't have front indicators in real-life, so they don't have them in-game.

Also the standard setups (Safe and Aggressive) are very capable, and pretty good starting points for beginners. Heck, I will even say if you start driving, don't change anything in the setups except for the fuel and tyre pressure. First learn how to drive, learn the tracks, drive on the max and go faster. The people who can only play 1-2 hours a week will be satisfied with the Safe setups, after some weeks they can go to the aggressive setup (or they can start there).

That the Ferrari looses the back mid-corner has for starters to do with your driving. On the stock aggressive setup you can easily drive very very fast without loosing the back mid-corner. Don't blame the game if you can't drive, but first make sure you can control the car in a good way. Start driving slowly and do not push, make sure you get the entries, apexes and exits of a corner right, once you know how to take corners, you can take them faster. (Braking at max at the last second won't make you faster as you will get a bad entry, can't hit the apex and mess up the exit). And sure, you can drive with no experience against AI just for fun and not being competitive, But it's like a shooting game. You first have to know the map, then all the corners and where enemies can spawn and can peek, then you can peek yourself and maybe have a better angle than them so you can win.

Setting up a wheel to drive in-game is pretty easy, heck if you have setup the wheel for others driving games you can drive within 5 minutes after installing. If this is your first wheel, you should've searched what everything on your wheel does (gain, FFB, steering lock etc) after that you have an understanding of what the game is asking.

Anyway, there is so much information about every setup, changing the rebound of the suspension sometimes requires changes in the bumpstops. And there are many more connected setup changes that can't be explained in the setup screen.
Also every car reacts different to changes than other cars, you HAVE to search info about the specific car and the settings, and sometimes you can't find it and have to figure it out yourself, and sometimes you will find information, but it doesn't work out the way you wanted it.

tl;dr, Cars are as they are in real life, no high beams in real life, no high beams in-game. The provided setups are perfect for the casual gamer. They will have a great time with them, and they need time to learn the cars / track. After that they can try tweaking the setup after searching how the car works and what every setting does.

 

Yes I know those streams, and if I have time, (what I mostly do not) I try to tune in.
For me Aris's setups are too "twitchy", or I do not know how to put that. I prefer a much more stable car, that understeers a bit.

However, Setup is not 5% of the game, but at least 50% (if not more).
A setup where the car drives how you like it, and you do not have to fight with, can help you get 3-4 secs faster easily.

If I would be able to set up the suspension properly, I am sure i could find another 2 secs at least.

I remember some 10 years ago, we (me and some guys in out neighborhood) played a lot of Richard Burns Rally - in my opinion still the best SIMULATION for Rallying. - and I was easily the fastest guy in our group, we all raced with default setup, as we had no idea what does what.
One day, I learned that there is a Hungarian championship in RBR... So I decided to join.
The first rally came, and the first stage was one of my absolute favorites. "Chirdonhead"
I gave it everything, at the finish I was maybe half a sec off my absolute best time...
Checked the leaderboard, and.... I was in 200+ place...
I did not understand. Checked the first guys time, he was 20(!) seconds faster.
Sure he is cheating I thought... I asked on the forums, man, how you do this, how can this guys called Ákos Paulin be so damn fast...
Setup they said... So a bit later I received a setup from one of the faster guys called Zoltán Lámer. I was instantly 12 secs faster with it then my previous absolute best time on the "Chirdonhead" stage. - The car was so much easier to drive, it did simply what i wanted it to do. Hell on the "Noiker" stage (longest stage), I improved 40+ secs with his setup (vs. the default). THAT is how important a good setup is!
(some ACC examples below)​

I love when people tell me how I have no idea, and then say absolute bull...
Blancpain Sporting Regulations 2019:

33.16
The car’s regulatory lighting system must function at all times during the Competition.
Any car that does not present the minimum illumination listed below, may be stopped by the Clerk of the Course for repairs:
-At the Front: 2 headlights (right and left) and 2 direction indicators
-At the Rear: 2 lights, 2 direction indicators and 2 stop lights / brake lights.
-Also the illumination of the numbers if required for the event, and, should the weather conditions deteriorate, the rain light.

Thus we can conclude that EVERY car has front indicators.
Also every car has "low " and "high" beams, just like the road cars.
Don't confuse the high beams with the additional "Endurance" lights, those are 2 completely different things.

You can read the regulations yourself: (see attached)

Again it is a thing of preference, I prefer cars that behave differently, and was also able (after a lot of trial and error) to get at least the Porsche and the Ferrari to drive how I like them.
This in turn resulted in much better laptimes (for example on Paul Ricard I was only able to drive 2:01-ish times, then after finding a good setup for my taste, I can now drive 1:56-ish times. - Hungaroring I started with 1:50-is, and can now go 1:44-ish).
So we can say, that a good setup can get you at least 4 secs a lap.

Yet still, I am sure one can do even better setups, but the game contains almost no information that helps me do that. And as said, I (as many others too) have a life, so I cannot spend hours upon hours researching what something does in the game. - Nor should you have to, its not 1990 after all.


Edit: I added more text.

 

If you can gain 3-4s per lap with the setup then we can help you for sure
Show us some videos that we can see whats going on.

 

You let the setups sounds way to important, and they aren't.
A good setup can make all the difference, i agree. But only if you know the track and the car for 100%.
If you're super fast with the aggressive setup, customizing your own setup can make some difference but never the 12 seconds you are saying. Thats not a setup problem, thats a driver problem tbh.

When i started (250hours ago) i started on the safe setup, and drove all the tracks and cars. I found one car thats suited my driving style the best and practicted with that car. I started with the safe setup and some AI races. After i became better at it i had a go at the aggressive setup. What a difference, much stiffer and i could take corners faster. But i still needed to adjust my driving style a bit to go faster and quicker. So now i know all the tracks like i made them and with my car i can drive on the limit with them. I can also drive most cars on the limit now after a few laps with just the aggressive setup.

I'm intrigued and want to see some driving results, can you share them? Maybe from a stream or a replay? Show us the one from the Hungaroring.

Some cars don't have high beams, only the flashing pass lights.

I think you are starting from the wrong side. You should first master the default setups before looking into tuning it the way you like, thats way more important and something i say the every new driver.
As customizing the setup can do more bad things than good things for the car.

Also the research thing is not a problem if you want to start sim racing. It's not your average racing game, everything is simulated here just like in real life. If you don't have the time and you don't want to do research, you probably don't have the time to become a pro and going into the setups isn't worth it.

That you want things different is something you can not blame Kunos for. Also the learning curve of setups if pretty easy, within 30 minutes you can have a basic understanding over every part in the setup menu. After that you can go drive for hours to test and stuff.
Also there are guides out there that are better than what Kunos could ever do in game. Because they change and effects are different.

 

After 3 1/2 years of simracing i am now able to do times 3-x seconds slower than the aliens, 90% on stock aggro stetup, only pressure and fuel changed.
Most important is to watch other simracers, than you can get a sense for tracklimits, braking points, when do they step on the pedal and so on.
Slowly i can feel that i have to learn and understand more bout the physics, the setup, maybe someday motec, but nearly all my best laps are full of mistakes and there is a lot of room for improvement.
Atm we drive the Boatley at Suzuka and 2.02.1xx is best - but a perfect lap could be a 2.01.5xx - and then there are so many details that are wrong.
With stock aggro setup there are bout >100 combos i tried that are similar, one-two seconds are "easy" possible with focus and 2-3 hours of doing lap after lap. Then the gap to the aliens could be 2-4s.
And i am no talent and have medium equipment.
tl;dr
You are on the wrong track

 

Sorry to say this but on this point, you're wrong.
Tweaking the setup they way you like may give you a gain of 0.5s maybe even a whole second but not more.

I'm coming from the old sims like GTR (1/2), GPL and GTL and Setup always was a huge deal to make your car faster.
When I started ACC, I drove onto the track, noticed some things I didn't like and made setup changes.... hours after hours, still wasn't really pleased with the setup and didn't have one single race without losing the car at least once.

Then I watched that one Aris' video where he talked about learning to drive before manipulating setups.
I listened, took the aggressive setup, only adjusted the tire pressures to the weather conditions and drove...
After an hour I was 1.5s faster than with my setup where I had spent days to get it work the way I wanted it. And from the next race on I didn't spin anymore.
That lesson was hard to swallow.

In German we have a word "verschlimmbessern" that describes making it worse by trying to fix it.
I think with your fixation on setups you verschlimmbesserst your driving and your ACC experience for sure.

Nope, you did not maximise the driving in the aggressive setup, so you can't take that time and compare it to the times you drive now.

 

Well, remember that 12sec was for Richard Burns Rally. - And the solution is easy. Suspension.
The default setup had way too stiff settings (as far as I could gather), and thus the car would be very unstable on bumps. - With the custom setup I received, the suspension behaved very differently, and you could just drive flat-out over the bumps.
If you do not have to slow down 5-6 times (that much), there is your 12 secs

Well I started with ACC some 500+ hours ago. I did as you did, tried the safe setup. Porsche was undrivable. I was spinning on every lap. So I decided to leave the Porsche.
Tried the Ferrari, and it was much better. After some time returned to the Porsche, and noticed it turn in way too much compared to the Ferrari. Had no idea how to fix that in setup, so I set my Steering wheel up differently.
The Porsche started to be quite fine. I started to do some minor setup changes.
After some time I went back to Ferrari, and it just did not want to turn in at all into the Monza 1st chicane.
I was literally going with 30km/h through there, ans still bumped into other cars, as the car simply did not turn...
Figured: Its the same issue as with Porsche, but backwards now.
So I again adjusted the Control settings, and now the Ferrari was good, but the Porsche was undrivable again...
So when asking on the forums about this, I was told: It is not the game's/car's fault that the Ferrari does not turn in, its my fault, and I should learn to drive.
But I did not give up, and finally fount the: "Steering ratio" setting that solved this issue. I had to move that on the Porsche towards the big numbers, and on the Ferrari towards the smaller numbers. And ever since I can drive both cars.
Now I went back to the forums, to shared my finding of this incredible 1 single setting in the setup menu, that solved nearly all my issues (at that point), and I was told: That has nothing to do with what my problem was... (Okay... )
But interestingly ever since I have no such issues with any of the 2 cars. - It is 1 single setting in the setup menu!
Made me from absolutely unable to drive the cars (when switching between them), to have no such issues anymore.

Then I discovered (by watching Aris's video), that I can tweak the front and rear Anti-roll bars to get the car to behave how I like it more.

So basically, at the moment what I do with the setups:
1.) - Set the steering ratio to be good for that track
2.) - Set the Anti-roll bars, to have a much more understeering car. (compared to the default setup)
3.) - Adjust ECU map, ABS, and TC settings to suit me better.
4.) - Adjust tire pressures (guess really) and fuel
5.) - Adjust aero if possible/needed.

I have no idea about suspension adjustments, but I am sure that is the real key to have a really good setup.

I will try to record something you just need to get some free time to do that.

Well, yes, in ACC they do not have, but in real life they do. A lot of front lights are not "simulated" in ACC, for example, Ferrari's DRL.
And yes, it has one in the real world. See:

Well, I do think that is the wrong approach.
Why fight with a car, that does not suite your driving style, rather then have the car drive how you want it?!

btw: I too played a lot of GTR2

For example: Bathurst & Porsche.
With the default setup (don't remember if aggr. or safe) I was unable to drive the T9 flat out.
For reference, here is the track map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount.../File:Mount_Panorama_Circuit_Map_Overview.PNG

If I tried to go flat out there, the car looses the back end, and spnd to the inside of the corner. I always had to lift off during the corner. No amount of hours driving the car will change it.
When I changed the setup however, the car was able to do that corner flat out. (and yes, that is already almost 1 sec of a difference in that corner alone.)

 

Only one example - Tortellini. He has really not much knowledge bout setups (thats what he said multiple times).
And he is one of the fastest aliens out there.
Porsche.
With all the possible respect - you better practice, do laps, instead of investing so much time here in the forum.
No offense - but there is something fundamentally wrong on your side.
From my perspective - all is said. I am out here.

 

This confuses me.
When you lift off the throttle mid corner you move weight to the front making the rear even lighter as it was and the back spinning out becomes much more predominant.
Porsche is known for it's lift off oversteer, how can you drive less oversteery through a fast corner by lift off?
That doesn't make sense at all.
I'm going to drive that Porsche @ Bathurst even though I never was a fan of Porsche in sim racing. Wanna test it on my own... c u l8er

 

Well, lift off BEFORE the corner - my bad

What I meant is, I had to go into the corner, and through the first part of it "off-throttle", or at least with very little throttle.

 

I'm not an Alien, never was and I don't pretend to be
I'm a chicken: Never drive full out on the edge without spare room, I know I don't place the car 100% perfect and often I need a couple of inches to be safe. Another reason why I'll never become an Alien.
Never drove the Porsche in Bathurst, in fact only time I drove the Porsche was for a Leaderboard special event at Spa if I remember correctly

What I did was:
selected practice session, 20° air temp, 50% cloudy
loaded the agressive setup
clicked on drive, did 3 laps (inkl. outlap), adjusted the tire presssure and raised the tc1 from 2 to 3
drove another 3 laps (inkl. outlap), fine tuned the tire pressure
drove out again and this was T9 in the next flying lap:


Just before entering T9 I ease off the throttle just a bit to help the car rotate into the corner because I didn't place it perfect to enter T9.
I bet you, if I can do this much within 6 laps while still adjusting my tires you can do it flat out without even thinking of easing off the throttle before the turn.

 

I'm debating whether it is advisable to use fuel map 1 or 2 on the Mclaren 720s in a standard race situation.

Going by lable: Map 2 is called "race" map and map 1 is called "quali" map, so i guess it is intended by the manufacturer to use map 2 in a race situation.
On the other hand the BOP was probably done with map 1 in mind, so I fear that this could change things a bit.

My first impression with using them is that on Brands Hatch fuel usage goes down from 2.65 to 2.33 per lap which results in around 13l less fuel load in a 1h sprint race.
The performance difference isn't too noticable for me, but I don't have the pace yet to really decide on that.
Also the linear throttle of map 2 feels easier to manage and more easy on the tyres in longer stints.

So in general which map should i use? Am I limiting my performance too much by sticking to map 2?
Also does anyone know which map the real drivers of GTWCE/IGTC/British GT use?

 

Well, you summed it up really good.
In my opinion, the real question is, how much do you benefit from the less starting fuel vs. the somewhat lower performance.
If you can drive the same laptimes with map 2, as with map 1, I would go with map 2.

 

@Aristotelis Regarding Ecu Maps on the NSX evo. As far as I know 1-6 are all full power, max consumption with different throttle linearity (5-6) for wet. 7 is supposed to be less power and less consumption. During testing for simgrid 10h suzuka I didn't notice any difference in fuel consumption between any of the maps. 1-6 makes sense, but 7 burns as much fuel, but is just slower. Is this supposed to be so? (ACC 1.5.4 on pc) I can definitely feel the different linearity of pedal input, map 8 is very slow and uses less fuel, so that seems to be right. It's just map 7 that seems to be a little useless when it doesn't actually consumes any less fuel.

 

In addition, it seems that mode 1 is slightly slower than saw mode 3. I'm note sure if that is intentional or


While we are on the Hondas, the non-EVO uses a monstrous amount of fuel here (example at Paul Ricard). The last time I tried the NSX (which was admittedly a long time ago), it was extremely frugal. I'm just curious if the original NSX was so thirsty



(Ignore the Power descriptions above...I just noticed i misread Aris' descriptions)