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Eyeposition Crosshairs

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by HomieFFM, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Gamer


    Maybe a usefull feature: When in cockpit mode, there should be the possibility to show crosshairs for the exact eye-position.

    Like a mappable button or integrated in the view menu: Show eye-position

    That way it would be much more easy to get the correct viewposition, when you want it to be close to realistic.
    Just an idea :)

    Sidenote: eyeposition and not headposition, because if you use the marker for the middle of the head you will still end up in a guessing game where exactly the eyes are, specially with lower FOV settings.

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  3. Salvatore Amato

    Salvatore Amato Simracer

    has the virtual driver a correct posture or has he forwarded neck, for instance?
    which one would be realistic?
    how tall is he?
    is his spine completely straight or probably he tends to put his head more at right?
    does the drive adjust his posture, if he has *** pain?
    which is the distance between his eyes?
    which kind of helmet is he using?
    can he cry during the race? does swearing affect his view?

    all this question should make you understand what you are asking is pointless.
    There is no correct view.
    There cannot be any correct fov.
    If you want to know what you would see exactly, go to sit in the real car, then try to reproduce it in the sim.
  4. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Gamer

    No don't get this thread wrong.
    All I'm asking for is a reference point, you will still have to/can adjust around it.

    Like this picture I posted is from AC1 , where this feature in some sort was already implemented.
    So I thought maybe this is a good thing for ACC as well to make this as an ''on off'' option in the cockpitmode.

    Correct FOV exists (it's easy to calculate), meanwhile the one correct seatposition doesn't exist,
    because like you already said, there are many variables.

    But still, a standard referencepoint would be very helpful, because specially if you use high FOV,
    the distances inside the car are also hard to guess and those virtual crosshairs could give you an quick idea where the head/eyes are positioned. :)
  5. m_box97

    m_box97 Racer

    In my experience if I have the camera position where I would expect it to be (slightly in front of the seat ears and with mirrors in view if I turn left/right) it's in a position very close to 0,0,0 regarding distance, height and lateral movement so I guess that the cross you are looking for is just 0,0,0 in the view menu.
    HomieFFM likes this.
  6. BrunUK

    BrunUK Alien

    Why the need for a reference point?

    If there is any such thing, it should simply be the default position.
  7. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Gamer

    This doesn't work as soon as you change the FOV.
    Most people doesn't care about a good seat position, but it can make quite a difference if you set this up correctly (in terms of immersion).

    That's why such eye position crosshairs would be very helpful (you wouldn't have to use the seatears as a referencepoint anymore and you would get a much better and more precise result)

    But I don't want to start another thread about this topic, this is intended as an feature request (Maybe that way the Devs see this and say Ok good idea or no thanks no interest in this)
    If you want to discuss FOV and Seat/Viewposition there is already a thread from me with some useful discussions right here)
    Maciej Malinowski likes this.
  8. DuckeyTapey

    DuckeyTapey Hardcore Simmer

    The F7 camera uses the same view position as the cockpit view, so you could use that to get a good idea about your view position. Press F7, then turn the view around with your mouse and you should see that you're either somewhere inside the driver model or in front of it when you see his face when looking back. From there you should be able to figure where you need to move the view to line it up with the driver model's eyes.
    Maciej Malinowski and HomieFFM like this.
  9. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Gamer

    Thank you that's a very good idea, gonna try that :)
  10. BrunUK

    BrunUK Alien

    What do you mean? Chaging FoV doesn't change the PoV, the two are completely independent.

    Honestly don't think I've ever seen a topic so completely misunderstood as this.
    anthony galmiche and m_box97 like this.
  11. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Gamer

    Change the FOV from 50 to 21 (for example), you will end up too close to the steering wheel (ingame).
    Therefore you have to find the virtual Eyepostion again with changing the view settings, going backwards upwards and so on.

    What most people do: They go back until they see the sidemirrors and most of the cockpit,
    But then they are most likely positioned at the backseat (exaggeratedly said) and/or sitting almost at the roof.
    Plus this will destroy the car size in comparison to the FOV (the car and interieur appears too small looking at the monitor)

    To get a better result you can use the seat side ears as a reference point, going almost at the end of them and then going back to the middle again (lateral).

    But that's not very precise and only a compromise solution, that's why virtual crosshairs for the eyeposition would be helpful.
    Maciej Malinowski likes this.
  12. BrunUK

    BrunUK Alien

    That is all absolute nonsense.

    It amazes me how people can put so much importance on a correct field of view and then post stuff like this.

    A low FoV *does not* move you closer to the wheel. The view is correct without moving the eye point. By doing so you're actually making it wrong.
    m_box97 likes this.
  13. Lol he never said that FOV does that, I have discussed that with him in the other thread.
    The thing is that (at least in our opinion, and also David Perell told so) irl they sit lower and also seats not only are adjustable but as someone said here as well all the other things might change this position.
    We think that avatars of course can represent your driving but most of the times is a bit different, David Perell stated that they sit much lower than it is shown in game by default camera, and if u have a rig with similar seating position and u want to represent that position in game then u need to change it from the default, usually we find it that it should be lower and further to the back of the car,
    This crosshairs is just a way of knowing where the camera is in reference to the whole car and the seat, not the driver that as we said can sit in the place that is not where u do if you would like to place your whole rig into the car with will give u that conection with the virtual world
    HomieFFM likes this.
  14. It’s funny how people here dont understand what is this guy even on about ?
  15. BrunUK

    BrunUK Alien

    He literally said changing FoV puts you "too close to the steering wheel". The implication is that these 'crosshairs' have to be in a different position depending on the chosen FoV, which makes absolutely no sense. If you think this suggestion has merit, please explain how this supposed exact position is defined.

    All the above describes a fixed position, none of this having to move it to compensate for FoV changes.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019 at 10:14 AM
    HomieFFM likes this.
  16. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Gamer

    I understand your point, I have said it wrong, what the real question is, how is the standardposition created in the first place?
    According to David Perel that is what he sees inside the cockpit and maybe even a littlebit lower:
    So if you use the standard position and just change the FOV you will end up at pretty high position (doesn't mean the seat moved any higher, but the standard position was already really high).

    But what you said is correct (even you could have said it a little bit more friendly instead of THIS IS ALL NONSENSE! ;) )
    The view itself is the correct one, so we shouldn't touch the distanceslider in any way.

    What I did now, I only corrected the view just a littlebit through the height and pitch slider and that's actually it (starting with a resetposition and just using the correct FOV)
    So thank you for your advice :)

    I'm by no means an expert in this FOV and Viewposition stuff, I'm still trying to understand all this, I don't want to fight or convince anybody,
    so please don't explode if I say anything wrong, that's why I'm in this forum, to learn something about it, thank you :)
    Maciej Malinowski likes this.
  17. BrunUK

    BrunUK Alien

    Apologies if my tone was off.

    The important point is that the correct eye position (whether David Perel's or anyone elses) never changes depending on field of view, only the user's *perception* of whether it's correct. I find it contradictory that some people will absolutely insist on a mathematically correct field of view, but then move the point of view to a completely unrealistic position (i.e. way too far back) because it doesn't 'feel' right.

    It could be that Kunos deliberately made the default point of view slightly higher than in real life, thinking that more casual users might complain that a realistic position was too low and therefore difficult to drive. I'm not convinced that there needs to be an 'exact' position defined though. Am pretty sure that if a real life driver complains that he's sitting too low in the car, the engineers will adjust the seat accordingly - despite the very minor effect on the CoG.
  18. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Gamer

    No problem, thank you :)

    That's the point I'm complaining too, people are moving the seat way too far back after using the correct FOV, which makes no sense.
    But what I have noticed, using the default position, there is already a "closer" distance setting by 10.
    Now where does this come from? Because if I set this to 0 it somehow looks more correctly (but I don't know if it is).

    Sorry for ignoring your advice, that should actually be the point, because the Defaultsetup is most likely an more user-friendly position as @BrunUK already said.

    It would be really helpful if a Dev could give us some advice in that regard, because only they know how everything was intended.

    But moving this to 0 is maybe a candidate for the real standard position.


    I have tried a littlebit around.
    The Default position, is always different in every car (distance wise).
    So you have the 2018 Porsche, with a standard distance of 10.... and then there are other cars with -2 and some with directly 0.

    The best way looks like to set everything to 0 while using the correct FOV.
    And then just using the Pitch and maybe a littlebit height option (depending on your monitor and real life seat height) and don't use the distance slider at all.
    For now this looks like the best solution if I'm not wrong.

    But I still don't know why the default position is not 0 in every car, but most likely some pre adjustments from the devs in order to have a more driver friendly view (just speculation).

    So if the driver eye position = distance + height + lateral = 0
    then we don't need any crosshairs. So I hope an Developer can give us some helpful information about that :)

    For now this looks good.

    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019 at 8:43 PM
  19. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Gamer

    Damn I'm getting a littlebit confused now, after I thought I have everything perfect...

    There are 3 different cockpit views:

    1. Cockpit with Hands + Steeringwheel
    2. Cockpit only
    3. Helmet Cam

    Finding the head/eye - position with putting the distance and height to ''0''
    does only work in option 1. Cockpit with Hands + Steeringwheel.

    Doing the same in option 2. Cockpit only, you will end up almost inside the windscreen + you will be off center lateral.
    So Option 1. is the best for setting this up and you can hide the steeringwheel and hands.

    But there is a problem with this view, even setting everything to 0% (Lock to horizon, Movement, Look with wheel and so on),
    the cam will still move while braking and accelerating.


    (Meanwhile in option 2. Cockpit only, no cam movement like it's supposed to with this setting, but like I said, there it's not possible to find the headposition.)
  20. m_box97

    m_box97 Racer

    Option 2 is the dash cam so 0,0,0 is in front of the dash as it should. I use cockpit view (option 1) and with movement set to 0 it doesn't move. This doesn't mean that your head is fixed to the car, the structure will have very small movements but your head will have no inertia.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019 at 9:11 AM
    HomieFFM likes this.
  21. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Gamer

    Thank you, that makes sense.
    So in other words it's not possible to disable this very small structure movement? Even it's very small I think it's distracting x) in AC1 the head is fixed to the car if I'm not wrong

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