Features missing from hybrid systems

I know this is a subject as old as Porsche Pack 2, or even Red Pack, but since at that time I was more active at university than on simracing, I'd like to bring it up again, and if an official statement was made about it, I'd like you guys to point it out.
I was playing with the 919 at La Sarthe and all I could think of was:
1 - When watching an onboard from Le Mans, there's a clear whine on every hard acceleration zone, which I assume is from the electric energy being deployed. In AC that sound is mimicked by transmission noise, but there's a clear difference. Could that be implemented?
2 - I'm not sure if that's right, but I've read somewhere that the 8MJ energy per lap limit is adapted to every circuit, by dividing it by the lenght of the Le Mans circuit and multiplying it by the lenght of the circuit the car will race on. Why can't we have that in game? (Assuming it's like that in real life)
3 - Can we please have adaptive energy deployment, where the car "learns" the circuit to harvest and deploy energy automatically to make the best use of it? I'm not absolutely sure LMP1 has this, but Formula one definitely has that.

 

This is about the 2017 car but it applies to the 2015(16)
https://presse.porsche.de/prod/pres...m&languageversionid=715278&hl=motorsport-news

Around Silverstone the 919 gets 5.37 megajoules.

 

I don't believe F1 'learns' the circuit automatically to deploy harvest etc. I think its more custom made deployment/harvest modes for each circuit.

Same end result, but I think its all pre-made, obviously with different modes for different situations. Would be a very cool feature to have to ability to make custom maps based on circuit position/distance etc, though I can understand it would be difficult to implement.

 

Stefano actually talked about that in the stream where he demonstrated the SF-15T. Don't quote me on this, but if I remember correctly, those custom profiles for each sector around a given circuit would require quite extensive resturcturing of all the circuits in game to allow for such a feature to work correctly, and he also said it's just not worth it for (at present time) three cars out of ~130 (?)

But you never know what the future will hold.

 

Yeah I can't imagine it would be simple, and completely understandable if its not considered worthwhile given its not a F1 sim. Would be awesome though.

 

I can't see why they wouldn't have this feature. Of course I'm not a software engineer or anything really useful for that matter, but I believe that by analyzing telemetry, the system could read where the longest full throtlle periods are, where you need the most acceleration and where you have the largest top speed, and then deploy electric power where the car would benefit the most from it. Of course this would need some iterations, since applying electric energy would change the telemetry and your needs would change as well. But in a formula where an engine advantage can give you absolute domination (as demonstrated by Mercedes), I'm pretty sure they'd want to invest something from their hundreds of millions of dollars into a software that automatically deploys energy where it gives the most benefit.

And to be honest, I don't think this is spaceship science. Some analysis of telemetry can quickly make for a much better usage of power than a fixed "low preserve, high preserve" profile would.

 

The sound differences could be the result of different microphone positioning, microphone sensitivity etc.
The sound from the onboard footage is not necessarily what you would experience were you driving that car.

 

All F1 teams use the same (McLaren) ECU to control the harvest rates and these are present and identical per team. So there's no self-learning on that side at least.

 

As far as i kow, in F1 deployment is optimized track to track by teams, not automaticaly. This means that for each weekend the car deploys more energy on diferent places depend on the chosen map or strat mode (usually at the begining of straits where its more laptime eficient). The driver has a "K" button or "push to pass" or "boost" to override that setting and deploy instantly to defend or atack.

 

There's no way of telling for sure, but I think you would hear that. It's basically the loudest sound you can hear when accelerationg from low speeds.

I don't know what is equal and what is not, but there definitely are differences in profiles. Some teams may need more charging, some less, that's why some teams charge their batteries in places where others don't and all that. That is also why Mercedes benefitted from a massive turbine to generate more electricity and so on. They may use fixed control electronics, that doesn't mean they all use them the same way.

Yes, it probably does have the teams' input, but they probably do use telemetry and softwares to create those profiles. I mean, it's definitely more efficient to have a software run integrals and that sort of stuff than having a guy go "Moaar powaar here!". And since teams aren't simulated on AC (Shame on them!), the way of doing it would be to let the players do some laps and having the sim determine a (close to) ideal profile.

 

Ah that. That's the transmission, I don't think it has to do with the hybrid system.

Edit: on a second thought (and listening to it once again), I think you might be right. Especially as it sets in instantly on slow down (and cuts away on accelerating again).
Still, it might depend on the positioning and mounting of the mic.

 

What makes me think it's from the electric engine is that it's at its loudest at the start of the straight, and it last longer for longest straights, which I believe is how the electric motor would be activated.

 

That could've been the transmission as well. A lot of gearbox noises disappear at higher speeds (higher transmission revs), so that alone isn't a good hint.
But listen to it in the position 2:40 in the video. There it is very clear that it is not rev-bound but load-bound.

So it's either the MGU or maybe the parts that connect the MGU to the engine/transmission.

Edit: another hint: At 5:39 he accelerates out of the corner. The MGU sound is there quite clearly but about 20m before the line disappears. At 5:42, the sound kicks in again and you can see that the car is accelerating faster (guess he pushed the overtake button to pass that LMP2).

 

Yup. Another indication, as I said, is that it lasts a lot longer on longer straights than on shorter acceleration zones, which is due to the fact that they deploy a lot more electric engine on longer straights (logically).
I'm not sure if the whine is from the electric engine directly, or it's the tansmission making a louder noise under more power (almost double). But it is linked to the electrid motor.

 

The Formula 2017 car mod from race studio sim has different quali settings for the MGU K track x track (the AC original ones) , i think it's more realistic than a generic Hotlap setting..

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I'd also like to see AI being able to use hybrid systems and push-to-pass functionality (non-hybrid as well, like with the upcoming Audi TT Cup car). Not ideal that the AI can't use it manually in the modern F1, LMP1 and hypercars.

 

The whine is 100% the electric bits in action and nothing else. It can't be simulated right now because the sound engine has no "energy flow" input available to decide when to produce the sound.

I've seen some people complaining about the MJ per lap rule missing but no one talks about the fuel per lap limit which is an even bigger feature that actually has a huge impact on the driving.

@Poguinhas You underestimate how complex it is to optimize energy deployment. Every team has their own "software" to optimize per track. No one is sharing it. If they would, it would be worth several thousand dollars.

Having track based profiles like the RSS mod still has many flaws. Simply changing DF levels, air temp or driver pace makes the car over/under use energy and that's on a very very basic speed based deployment which is in itself very far from optimal.

The only way we could get optimal deployment is to open up an amount of settings that no one would be comfortable enough to play with.

 

I am aware that a software so important in an environment where I-don't-know-how-many million dollars are invested is worth quite a lot, and it's probably not gonna be the most simple software out there, and even with that software there are several modes that can be used during a race, qualifying and practice. But I believe some sort of "rudimentary" solution could be made. I mean, simply using the throttle and speed telemetry data you could quickly develop a profile that, while not perfect, would certainly be better than the fixed ones in game, and also better than having the player control it himself by pressing the button after each corner.
I do remember Empty Box mentioning that iRacing may have this system, although he wasn't really sure.

 

The profiles we have are the rudimentary solution. They all are throttle and speed based (and under-over steer based but let's not get into that). In what car you find yourself pressing the button out of every corner? I find the profiles provided with the 919 to be ok and only need to be button-completed up to 8 MJ on the longest straights once the basic profile dies off at high speed.

The iRacing McLaren has a few good settings available to the user. Pretty much tuneable like our SF15-T but in a different way.

 

Well, for example when I use the 919 at Le Mans. I used High Preserve, and I had three options: Either I leave it up to the profile to deploy, and waste a lot of energy in short straights that don't make for much tame, or I use the profile together with the button to gain speed on the long straights and run out before the lap ends, or finally I have the option to deploy all energy manually, which is not only inefficient, but also requires effort and concentration that's impossible to mantain for longer sessions.

And I know that sometimes out of fanboyism we just try to convince ourselves that "it's not a necessary feature, would require a lot of effort for very little reward", I see it in pretty much every suggestion thread, and have even done it myself some times, but rationally I really don't think that's a good argument.