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Ferrari 488 GT3: how to lap fast at Mugello

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Strummer, Aug 1, 2016.

  1. Strummer

    Strummer Simracer

    There has been much discussion of understeer in the 488 GT3; here are the results of a week's work of practice by me to get up to speed in this car. Ultimately I think I was successful; this lap beats the current median time for the combo on RSR but as usual I offer the benefits of my experience primarily to other intermediate-to-fast drivers; the very quick guys on here will have less to learn and more to teach via hopefully constructive critiques. I know that a couple of nervous mistakes on my part left at least .5 sec on the track during this lap.

    To summarise:

    Understeer: yes, the car pushes but, no, it doesn't make it any slower. It's much better to adapt to the understeer than to use radical setup adjustments to get the car all tail-happy. The understeer makes the car exceptionally stable and with smooth inputs, good gearing and no attempts to hoon it about, it is very fast and quite possibly very gentle on the tires.

    Setup: The default set is essentially sound but adjustments need to be made to gears 5 and 6 because the default setup limits maximum speed in the long straight to 155 mph by essentially excluding 6th gear. You should be at 165 mph on entering the braking zone. The only other adjustments I made were for less rear wing; this will increase the car's tendency to lift-off oversteer but, again, this should be addressed via driver technique not setup.

    Gearing: This car has no high-end torque. Check out the dyno graph in the sim to confirm the steep fall off at 6000 rpm. It has a lot of power down-low, however, which is why speed you think you've lost via lifting mid-corner to counter the understeer can be regained on exit, with interest, as long as you do not unsettle the car by attempting too fast a corner entry. The lack of grunt up high makes it very important that you look at the cockpit shift lights (there is no analogue RPM gauge) and upshift the instant you see a line of red lights. It will feel like short-shifting but it will make you much faster.

    Trail-braking: Rather than messing with the car's stability to get it to turn in more sharply under power via setup changes, again I recommend working with the understeer, which I strongly believe to be a design feature, beautifully implemented in the sim. Judicious trail-braking will get you pointed through the apex and in some corners enables application of power before the apex. For me (aided, I admit, by high-quality wheel/pedals), this technique is so much sounder than entering a corner hot and sideways. You can get the car to rotate mid-corner, too, but only if the gearing is right and you are not too impatient with throttle input.

    Here is video (interior/exterior). No, this is not my driving FOV. I can post setup and replay if there is interest. Again, I would like to emphasize that I know how much faster many of you are; this is aimed at "club level" racers like me rather than pros. I hope it helps.

    BenniS, Ace Pumpkin, baboon and 7 others like this.

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  3. Gevatter

    Gevatter Alien

    Is that your video? I'm asking because you write about shifting correctly but then in the video the engine gets rev'ed into Nirvana constantly.
    Seria17hri11er likes this.
  4. Strummer

    Strummer Simracer

    When it's "revved into Nirvana" it's because I need the engine braking, like in the fast downhill curve. If you have any experience in this car, you will know that there is no chance whatsoever of a fast lap if it is over-revved.
  5. ZethGAF

    ZethGAF Simracer

    Thanks for the write-up! I'm amazed that 6 of the top 10 RSR used soft tires. I'm guessing that requires a very specific technique or setup - I could never get through half a lap without critical grip loss. I managed a 1:48.672 with mediums though. It's definitely stable - maybe one of the "safest" gt3 options despite being so quick.
  6. Strummer

    Strummer Simracer

    Appreciate the response, thank you. That 1:48.672 is a really quick lap; I am perfectly content to say that I do not have the talent to break into to the 1:40s with this combo. I like to use RSR hotlaps to determine the average pace of a particular track/car and to get onto the RSR median or within five per cent of the WR. When hotlapping, a slowish guy like me can usefully observe the time differential per lap between his hot lap/qualification lap and the pace he learns he can drive lap after lap. I'm hoping I can drive 1:52s in races. It is possible that tire duration, of softs in particular, is positively impacted by the car's lateral stability.
  7. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    Since rsr has the bug of not showing temps its quite likely some are running min temps for the softs and also getting a significant power boost. Until RSR fixes this rather huge issue its fairly pointless for compraing times all set in totally different conditions. Lower temps are so much faster in any car that has soft rubber that also works at these temps and engine power is also raised.

    There is currently no pro mode so no way of setting the game to match others cinditions and get a true comparison.
    Coanda likes this.
  8. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    I did a bit of setup work with the 488 at Spa yesterday and the first (although few) laps looked promising.

    Some of the setup changes I already made and use since short after RP was released:
    rear wing down to 3 or 4, brake bias 1% more to front, diff. acc. and coast -10% each

    That made the setup a bit more even matched front/rear, but was a bit inconsistent with understeer with weight transfers.

    So yesterday I also changed front ARB -1, front springs one click softer and a bit more front height because of the softer springs.

    This seemed to reduce understeer a bit more but also reduced the inconsistency with weight transmission after braking, without losing traction or an less stable rear (except what you lose because of lower rear wing).

    I think Spa and Mugello have characteristics that aren't so different, so maybe these adjustments help on Mugello, too.
  9. bap

    bap Gamer

    The car has agressive turn in, though lacking in mid and exit oversteer. There is a hint of neutral steer transitioning into mid corner, then it's all just understeer after that. Probably well suited for Imola not Mugello.

    I spent few laps and with my driving style, I was doing mid 49's as my base. Throughout the session, I just had to eliminate that turn in because it was causing the car to drift in the entry but loses steam on the exit. So I ended up changing a lot in the car instead of trying to keep the car as close to stock. But after an hour I was doing mid 47's so I'm happy with the car now.

    Attached Files:

  10. Gevatter

    Gevatter Alien

    So you also need engine braking on the final run on the straight then? :rolleyes: I'm not trying to be mean. Your text guide is fine IMO, but what's shown in the video isn't.

    And yes, you're correct, a fast lap isn't possible if you overrev the Ferrari. I was able to do a 1:50:2 after about ten laps in optimal conditions on mediums without setup work.
    I'd say try shifting more, as you wrote, as soon as the revlights turn red, and downshift again if you need engine braking. You should usually accelerate until you reach the brakling point.
  11. I have driven this combo quite a lot too since Mugello is the perfect track IMO to teach you how you need to drive this car in the corners, which is explained by OP also. I'm down in 1:48.2 on mediums but can manage a high 1:47 if I get a clean lap as I am often a few tenths under my current best. I do the combo through the special event, so always same condition. You need to get a 1:47.0 time to get gold on the event which sure is quite hard ! I have a general feel the special events are a lot harder to gold than before. If you see that only 2 people have golded it on RSR while there are 202 times at the moment.. Anyway, I really like this car but it takes some getting used to. I was really slow before I knew how to drive this car properly. So thanks to the OP for sharing so that others can improve !
  12. Mike Kadlcak

    Mike Kadlcak Gamer

    what do you guys mean by you need the engine braking? aren't the brakes good enough in this car that you need the engine to slow the car down?
    Mogster and Ace Pumpkin like this.
  13. Strummer

    Strummer Simracer

    You can upset the car or lose time by using brakes in certain conditions when, if you are in a low enough gear, a quick lift will have the same effect. With my gearing at Mugello in this car, you can drive the long downhill curve in either 3rd or 4th but in 4th you might have to dab the brakes to get the Ferrari facing the right way coming off the rumble strip to the right. Also, in 4th the car will run wider on exit, which can be fatal here. I like to drive this combination almost WOT in 3rd for finer control and so that I can use very momentary engine braking at high RPM and keep the car on the apexes. That is not to say it's the only way to do it. I may try it in 4th.
  14. Strummer

    Strummer Simracer

    Well, since most of you are faster than me, I've been taking your observations re. how to drive this combo very seriously. Result: I'm one full second better, not just over one PB hot lap but over consistent low 1:50s; I never thought I'd get down there. On RSR the graph plunges at 1:50.500, anything less is alien territory, where most of you seem to live; I entered this territory, much to my surprise, by being able to drive a PB of 1:50.382 vs yesterday's 1:51.295.

    I drove your setup, Bap, but I'm not enough of a virtuoso and need a little more warning of snap oversteer.

    Using my own setup I switched to mediums, which has enormous benefits. I upshifted sooner, making more up and down shifts if necessary, and gained time from that as well as from taking Luco in 3rd not 2nd and driving much more of the downhill/uphill r/h sweeper in 4th.

    Four consecutive 1:50.xx laps today when yesterday my PB had been an isolated 1:51.295 represents a very encouraging growth spurt. Thanks for all your help. I am not experienced in the GT3 cars so this has been a baptism of fire.

    What is the best way to use setup to manage tire temps, using mediums, over a 20-lap race?
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
    ALB123 likes this.
  15. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    I'm no expert at setup work, but I think managing tires is more about driving.
    Mugello is hard on the left tyre, front more than rear, and the best way to make them last is to go a bit slower in the right hand turns, try to avoid that the car pushed over the front tires and a let the car roll with no throttle or as little as possible.

    Practice this and your drop in lap times is smaller than you would guess before.
  16. Whitestar

    Whitestar Hardcore Simmer

    Thanks for posting the lap. What settings did you use here? Optimal track, medium tires and no assists?
  17. Strummer

    Strummer Simracer

    Optimum, 25 deg. C, softs, no assists for the lap in the video. Mediums plus more discipline in shifting gained me a full second (see above).
  18. Strummer

    Strummer Simracer

    I just set the WR!!

    (Well, aided by a wipe at RSR, that is...)

    Still, my PB, and not too shabby: 1:49.843. It would have put me at exactly #50 out of 214 in the pre-wipe standings, still not as quick as some of you guys.

    Let's repopulate the database for this combo on RSR. Meanwhile, here's video; it's a much smoother lap than the one I first posted but I still missed a couple of apexes.

    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
  19. Whitestar

    Whitestar Hardcore Simmer

    Concrats! :)
    Btw, this is just an observation, and far be it for me to criticize your driving (I'm probably much slower than you on this track): At 1:19-1:20 from the onboard view it looks as if your steer angle is pretty big/steep. And you keep that angle almost all the way through, only letting go at the last moment before pushing out of the turn. I would imagine this creates a pretty big slip angle on your wheels/tyres. Maybe you could shave off a bit of lap time by opting for a lesser steer/slip angle? This is just a theory, I might be wrong. :) Also, maybe the arm/steering wheel movements of that virtual cockpit guy are exaggerated?
  20. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    You are right with steering angle.
    I just did a 1:48.5 on my 3rd lap (17l fuel, mediums, optimum grip, 19°C/20°C temp). Stock setup with adjusted tire pressure, rear wing to 4 and brake bias 1% more to front.

    I was barely over 90° in a few turns. I guess to high steering angles will only add to the already high tire temps at Mugello and cause more understeering.

    Mugello T1.jpg

    last turn:
    Mugello last turn.jpg
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
    Whitestar likes this.
  21. Whitestar

    Whitestar Hardcore Simmer

    Yes, and that wouldn't be ideal for endurance racing either.
    Schnipp likes this.

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