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Gt2 cars...how the heck do you brake in them?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by MJ911, Jul 15, 2015.

  1. MJ911

    MJ911 Racer

    I am having major troubles with the GT2 cars and trying to brake normally in them without constantly locking up and destroying the front tyres. Whats the secret? I have tried shifting the balance forward and rear to no effect, tried touching the brake pedal like a 7yr old ballerina, softening the front anti-roll bar etc etc.
    the only way to keep the tyres alive and non-flat spotted is to brake really gently and very early and use downshifts as engine braking. But that just costs lots of time and is nothing like how you see these cars being driven for real.
    The brake physics just seem plain wrong to me for these GT2 cars

    The problem is exaggerated further at a track like Imola with heavy braking zones or downhill sections. Try it in the F458 GT2 !
    All help appreciated!
     

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  3. snyperal

    snyperal Simracer

    Full chat on the pedal and then a slight ease off seems to work fine for me. As the tyre wears I'm a little more mindful and brake a shade earlier. But I'm a newb and maybe I missed something in your post.
     
    CCX and GTHQ_koop like this.
  4. ChrisR

    ChrisR Alien

    Alter your brake gamma
     
  5. Cefa

    Cefa Hardcore Simmer

    +1, with my DFGT pedals it's hard as a childbirth braking the 458 GT2, I don't use the C7R for this reason, worse than the 458, with the M3 GT2 I don't have problems, don't know why...
     
  6. One word of advice.....always pump your brake pedal before leaving the pits. If I don't do that every time I start a session (offline practice or online race...it doesn't make a difdference), I have major trouble with brakes locking up (and that even includes cars with ABS).
     
  7. plaid

    plaid Alien

    I struggle, too, but the real problem is that with my DFGT it rattles extremly after they are gone yellow. If they are red it sounds, feels like using a driller.

    Just one question: Does your DFGT react similiar extreme? I mean the effect with flatspots is mutliple times extremer then other effects.
    And it sounds pretty unhealthy, especillay cause the DFGT is made of plastic.
     
  8. Sen Dewael

    Sen Dewael Racer

    You need to do that with every pedal before starting, it's to calibrate the pedals :)
     
    TDS, McNappa and PhenOm like this.
  9. MJ911

    MJ911 Racer

    hmm, if I hit the brake pedal hard, then its instant lock up. I don't have this problem with the other car sets within AC, just the GT2 cars, hence the query.
    My sensitive fanatic CSR_Elite really doesn't like flat spotted tyres and you really notice the vibrations through the wheel once you get a yellow/red patch on the fronts. The braking just seems ridiculously sensitive with these cars.
    I also tried running a few laps at normal speeds and light braking to get some heat into the tyres, then going for it, but same flat spot result within a few laps. Its taking the enjoyment out of using these lairy beasts.
    FWIW my pedals are high quality BRM Speed 7's too so not like im using inferior kit!
     
  10. Mogster

    Mogster Alien

    Run AC then press each of the pedals before you enter 3D.

    Failing that adjust the brake gamma.
     
    TDS likes this.
  11. nonnex

    nonnex Alien

    because they have a very potent brake system and no aids (few). They are pure racing cars. Well, its just one of the differences.

    If you would tell a GT driver he has now a computer aided braking system, the first thing what he would do is to turn it off. ;)

    Or what do you have meant by locking immediatly? Do you mean after some mm of pedal travel? Then its a hardware calibration problem.
     
    kro likes this.
  12. demonized

    demonized Simracer

    Comparing to GT3 without ABS (one league i'm participating drives them like that), GT2 seems really easy regarding braking control. I usually move brake bias a little bit rear (1-2%), don't push brake pedal at 100% and then ease off
     
  13.  
  14. snyperal

    snyperal Simracer

    Odd that it's just one car set, I would've thought if it was a calibration issue it would effect other cars also?
     
  15. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    I think the correct answer is brake calibration as many mentioned. Please let us know if this helped.
    Otherwise my hint would be to try to brake obviously less for some laps. The car doesn't need to get instable and the tyres don't need to scream to get laptimes 3 seconds off pace. This is the pace where you should start improving very slowly.

    Funny side story: Nope, at least not the ones I asked about it. This seems to be some simracer phenomenon only ;)
    They just asked: "Does it make me faster? Is it allowed?" - 2x yes, ABS = on.
     
    LeDude83, Cote Dazur and Mogster like this.
  16. nonnex

    nonnex Alien

    Really, I havent talked about braking aids especially with the few I'm able to talk with. But if it was about car soft aids in general, there was the common sense of, no I only trust my arse and the other biological sensors.
    So I think this would also count for braking aids for them. How ever, paid Drivers are a special species, so who knows what they think in real ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2015
  17. Nao

    Nao Alien

    The one thing that made me learn GT2 cars was switching mindset from "cars" to "single-seaters" - drive and brake them like formula cars.

    Take Exos /S1 for a spin, look at the front wheels directly and learn to modulate the brake under load transfers and loss of downforce when slowing down. Try to underrotate the inside wheel without actually locking it up. Combine visual clues of locking up with sound ones, and when returning to GT2 use the sound as you learned it to underrotate the wheels there too.

    If you feel like not having enough precision to do that, mess around with brake balance (the more rear balance the more you can press the brake), brake gamma (in launcher, lower gamma should make hard braking easier) and maybe other wheel specific settings (possibly increase pedal stiffness near the end by some rubber mods etc).
    In the end in the completely best conditions it should be possible with GT2 cars to floor the brake pedal and not get lockups (worn tyres, less downforce, slow track needs pressures of ~85-95% and less), as long as you had correct pedal press rate (don't slam, press it as hard as front tyres load and engine revs rise with downshifts) it should be ok and then it's just a matter of letting the pedal at a correct rate to underrotate inside wheel just a little bit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2015
    Hagen and MJ911 like this.
  18. MJ911

    MJ911 Racer

    Some good answers there guys, appreciate the help. I like the training tip using the single seaters for tyre loading.

    When you guys say mess with the brake gamma, is there a 'how to' guide for that? Or is it fairly obvious what to tweak?
     
  19. Nao

    Nao Alien

    For some advanced theorycrafting on brake gamma you can see link at the end of my signature :p

    In short gamma 1, is 1:1 brake pedal travel to brake force in car - best for heavy braking, and >can be< best overall if you can be precise with early pedal travel (often requires quite stiff pedals), gamma of around 1.6 is good for pedals like stock G27 ones... giving better precision for light pedal force (for trailbraking etc) but at a cost of precision near the end of pedal travel. When using some rubber bumpstops it's possible to get good braking at high gamma due to rubber being stiff enough to limit pedal travel needed... it all depends on the relation of force needed at different pedal positions. (and even on seating positions boots/socks etc).

    I'd advice experimenting what would work for your setup, (take one combo where you need both high force threshold braking, and some light force trailbraking and stick to it for the tests making sure you can do both with similar precision)
     
    Cote Dazur, nate and snyperal like this.
  20. Calibrate your brakes as said, change your braking style a little bit hit them fully ( but don't lock them ) and then unload them (relatively) slowly before you enter a corner.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2015
  21. Mogster

    Mogster Alien

    Just push the brake gamma slider to the right and see if it helps. Default is 2.5 irc, higher values give more real pedal travel for the same response in game so the brakes are less sensitive.

    You can see the effect it'll have as Kunos have nicely added a chart for you :)

    Do try the pedal calibration thing though. You can check you're getting the normal range of motion on the setup screen.
     
    LeDude83 likes this.

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