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How to increase Fanatec ClubSport base v2 motor strength?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by F430_458_F12, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. F430_458_F12

    F430_458_F12 Alien

    Hi all,

    I am a very satisfied ClubSport v2 base customer, and am wondering if there is a way to increase the motor strength safely?

    I currently use external cooling which I force into the right side of the base at an angle...it keeps the motor very cool. The rear fan rarely comes on, and turns off quickly with the higher cooling potential...but the wheel strength stays the same, obviously because it has a torque limit...has anyone fooled with ways of increasing the motor power?

    First thoughts are the power brick...I am sure voltage from that can make the motor a little more powerful. Does anyone know a compatable power brick similar to the Fanatec one?

    Also...are there any software updates that increase the v2's potential? My wheel's been using the 204 firmware for a while now...drivers are at 289, but the firmware doesn't seem to have a new version. Does anyone know how to increase the software potential for the motor? Thanks!
     

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  3. gandlers

    gandlers Hardcore Simmer

    Simply upping the input power to the wheelbase isnt going to make a difference.
    If you up the voltage you will probably blow the wheel up as the circuitry will be rated to work at the voltage and amperage of the supplied PSU.

    The only way to increase the power to the motors would be to redesign the motor drivers with higher power output, but you will need to be an electronic engineer with ability to reverse engineer the existing circuitry and to upgrade it where required.
    There may also need to be firmware modifications to take the revised output circuitry into account.

    All in all I'd say it isnt possible (not to the layperson anyway!)
     
    mms, F430_458_F12 and Schnipp like this.
  4. F430_458_F12

    F430_458_F12 Alien

    Thank you, Gandlers, that's what I was kind of thinking. The motor probably is capable of more...but like most companies, they must play it safe so the device in question works across the continent with many types of outlet and power situations...which of course lowers the output of the motor a little. I suspected it would involve upgrading some circuitry...and Fanatec has expressly stated that the firmware for the 2.5 does not work for the 2.0 so...alas wheel...you are as strong as you'll ever be.
     
  5. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Alien

    It sounds like you may be approaching the point where a Direct-drive wheel is going to be your best investment. If you want to stay with Fanatec gear, there is the new DD's coming this year but, you can also use the rims / button boxes on other DD-systems with some conversion.

    Even if you do manage to increase the V2 output, how much can the weakest link in the chain handle and how long before it breaks?

    The significant advantage to DD is increased fidelity and dynamic range; it's something that can be difficult to comprehend until you've spent some time using a DD-wheel. Of course, the torque and durability of current DD-systems are already well known advantages and the cost has been reduced to the point where it really should be an obvious choice soon - if not now, based on relatively little cost difference. Considering that you already have Fanatec gear, the new DD might be the most efficient upgrade when it arrives.
     
    Schnipp, Turk and Thomas Cameron like this.
  6. Turk

    Turk Alien

    While I'm certain that does happen I wouldn't be expecting there to be a whole lot of performance left over. I doubt they'd put an expensive motor in and ramp it down, especially considering their range of products is quiet narrow so they can be very specific with their components.. It's more likely the motor is just below it's limits to save costs and stop it from harming itself. I think you may spend a lot of time for very little improvement at the cost of drastically reducing the lifespan of your wheel, if not outright killing it in the process.

    I could be wrong, but my assumption is always that affordable off the shelf products are designed to be just enough and no more for cost saving. You also have to bare that in mind when thinking of the casing and other components. Maybe the case just can't take anymore force than it currently is.

    Good excuse to start saving for the DD wheel.
     
    Dean Ogurek likes this.
  7. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    I have the V2 as well, and do electronics by trade, but I'll give you the "right" advise for getting better FFB on the v2: get a lighter rim.
    The BMW rim is about the heaviest you can get, though the diameter is not bad. The best you can get in terms of price/weight, is the formula rim. It works incredible well for almost any GT and of cause modern formulas.
    I also have the uni-hub attached with a larger round custom Momo rim, though it does tame the FFB down close to the BMW (which I sold with my V1 base). I use the custom rim for most roadcars/classics, anything >720 DOR, because it's near dangerous for your hands to try to drift with the formula with high DOR cars.
    Finally, you can try the current FFB-clip app, it now has a Dynamic mode if you like max FFB all the time (both in corners and on straights) without clipping, and you can always increase FOR a few steps.

    Edit: just from memory, I think the BWM rim is about 2.1kg, while the forumala is 1.2kg or something. My custom rim + unihub is around 1.9kg.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
    F430_458_F12 and Wilfred like this.
  8. some1pl

    some1pl Alien

    A lighter rim itself won't make the FFB stronger, rather more "crisp" and less "mushy" due to lower inertia. These are rather subtle differences.

    But a smaller rim will increase the force you have to apply on the wheel to counteract the wheel torque, as this is proportional to arm's length (wheel diameter). BMW rim is 32 cm, but you can buy a smaller 28 cm wheel, or as Tberg suggested, Formula rim which is about 27 cm if my memory serves me right. Keep in mind, that the latest Mclaren GT3 rim is bigger, with 30 cm diameter.

    Other than dialing FOR to 150 and setting in game FFB up to the clipping point, I don't think you can do much with the wheel motor itself. The real question is: do you really need that strong FFB.
     
    Tberg likes this.
  9. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    Sorry, obviously I forgot to include the diameter is important. I screwed up my explanation, but I ment something like "get a smaller rim" :D
     
  10. Red Or Dead

    Red Or Dead Racer

    I have a g27 and i changed the power supply with a bigger one. The one that came with the wheel was 24V 1,75A and the new one is 28V 8A. Also added a small fan on top of the motors. It was a good upgrade. The ffb is stronger and never had problems for a year now. Maybe more.
     
  11. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    Slightly different wheel in the topic :)
     
    F430_458_F12 likes this.
  12. Red Or Dead

    Red Or Dead Racer

    Yes. But the result might be the same.. Not much of a mod and you can always revert back
     
  13. 3dchips

    3dchips Racer

    I did the "opposite", I had a T500RS and replaced the Bühler motor only with a stronger one while all other components are still original. http://www.xsimulator.net/community...tor-upgrade-65w-to-85w-success-01-23-16.7797/
     
  14. F430_458_F12

    F430_458_F12 Alien

    I completely agree, Tberg, and honestly, as I was writing the OP, I knew the real solution. Motor strength isn't always the best solution either...due to the many factors that can alter physical car data from a game's code to the wheel, one must ask if even a DirectDrive wheel does an excellent job replicating true tyre and suspension forces. DirectDrive wheels are strong...but strength does not equal physical data accuracy, or the kinds of hydraulic and pneumatic forces real steering systems have. Plus, many modern cars including the race varieties have wheel forces far less than the hero cars of the 50s, 60s, and 70s. While the Fanatec CS v2 certainly cannot replicate the actual steering forces of say Prost's MP4/4, it can and does accurately simulate modern car steering forces. My issue really is the FFB latency--no hiding that a heavy rim will not only dampen (I don't personally like that word) but delay road detal and suspension data, leading to a "spongy, latent" feel.

    The frustrating thing about Fanatec is...I LOVE the BMW wheel. LOVE. My first true favorite race car as a child was the BMW GT2. Watched it win at SPA all those years ago, and watched part of the Nurburgring 25h rennen. It's the finest Alcantara wheel I've ever seen too, when most true race replica wheels use suede. It's just so darn heavy though, haha...channeling my inner Vera DiMilo :D

    I've been curious about Fanatec's adapter hub...looks heavy, even if you remove some of the button attachments and paddles. I own an original Porsche 997 Cup OMP steering wheel...heavy, robust 330mm rim...but I love it.

    Actually, the Formula and Formula: carbon rims aren't the lightest now, Fanatec released pre-orders for the McLaren 650s GT3 wheel in November...the wheel weighs 900 grams or so, and is larger than the Formula rim. Though, I'm not sure if the new wheel's final weight was taken with the cheaper CSW quick-release or beefier CS quick-release attached. The latter will add some weight for sure. But it's nice to see Fanatec taking the rim weight issue seriously...it's been the bane of the CS base ever since v1.

    About the FFB clip app...I run my v2 base at 100% FFB, 100% FoR, and 100% game-menu strength...so I'm already maxed out...do you think the app's dynamic mode would help? Or is it in vain considering my settings?

    I like a very strong wheel, but if I'm honest, I want crisp effects. One can always use some dampening or reduction in wheel gain to lessen any "notchy" forces...but one cannot always add more force.

    And you're correct, the Formula wheel is 27cm, not 26 like the website says. It is indeed harder to turn than the larger rims. Regarding the pre-order McLaren GT3 rim, I'm very interested to see how it performs, being larger in diameter but lighter in weight. 942 grams I think the website says, or thereabouts...but do you think that final weight was taken with the CSW release mechanism attached? The optional ClubSport quick-release will add weight...might make the McLaren wheel almost the same as the current Formula rim lol.
     
  15. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    100% ingame is the wrong way to go, you'll have clipping in highspeed corners on....all tracks in most cars.
    You can try this, before installing the FFB-clip app:
    Dial down the game gain to 80% and increase FOR on the wheel to 120-130%, compensating the 20% gainreduction. While some say it'll be the same as having 100% gain and still clip the FFB, this ain't exactly true.
    Anyway, try it, and you'll have an idea of more details in the FFB but at about the same force as before you adjusted anything.
    Now try the latest FFB-clip app, read the manual, try both Dynamic mode on/off. If you choose to use it on all the time for all cars, you might want to fiddle with the overall strength of each cars, which is stored individually in the FFB-clip app. Else, all cars will have the close/same steering weight.
    Finally, start with 100% FOR, which is what I use for the F1 rim. Dial it up to 110% if you like it stronger, 120% is about max and any higher feels wrong IMO. Something takes over in the fidelity of the FFB, I guess this is where DD must take over.
     
  16. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Alien

    Regarding clipping, I'm not sure I really understood what clipping was and how it feels until I started using Direct-drive; what an eye-opener that was.

    When using very high torque output on direct-drive wheels, some clipping can actually serve in a safety role.
     
  17. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    The quick release adaptor for the McLaren wheel will add weight and bring it inline with the formula rims but it’s weight at the centre of the wheel so won’t relays have any impact. The BMW wheel is awesome but it has a lot of weight around the outside causing more inertia and hence slightly slower to react to changes so you lose a bit of the fine detail. The stronger the motor the less impact this has of course
     
    F430_458_F12 likes this.
  18. F430_458_F12

    F430_458_F12 Alien

    Interesting. I adjust all cars FFB with the slider app in-game, this allows me to keep the wheel and game gain @100%...personally, the road cars' FFB @ 100% is far too strong and unrealistic...most of them are realistic @ 70%.
     
  19. Rudski

    Rudski Alien

    Your firmware is out of date. Use the Fanatec app and let it download the latest firmware, fairly sure you should be at 317.
     
  20. F430_458_F12

    F430_458_F12 Alien

    Thank you, Rudski! Is the 317 ok? I use the v2 base, not v2.5...Fanatec has a warning about using new firmware for the old wheelbase, that it's components aren't suited for it. Fanatec app? I didnt know one existed, please explain :)
     
  21. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    No, just use the 292 driver designed for V2, which also contains the latest firmware for the base.
    The Fanatec app is the Fanatec Wheel Property page icon on your desktop.
     
    F430_458_F12 likes this.

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