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How will the online system be?

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Quffy, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    For me an online multiplayer based on a matchmaking system has to be on official game servers and you can search for a match at any time of the day, and free for everyone. And no server list either, just a matchmaking queue you enter.

    Subscription/scheduled racing is not popular but actually boring and it only attracts the hardcore players (read: small group of players).

    For example: Select the series - GT3 -> Press Go (at any time of the day, no schedule or booking). Now the system looks for "15" players that are also in the matchmaking queue (if the official race is for total 16), based on region (maybe you can select which region(s) or max ping slider to search for an official race) and ranking points/elo.

    The matchmaking queue can have like 3000 players looking for a GT3 race at any given moment. So out of those 3k in the queue, you get matched up with other "15" for an official race, based on region and ranking points (the player doesn't have to see the ranking points, but a more broad information, like a rank or tier).

    A matchmaking system needs official servers on a competitive game mode (the blancpain regulations I guess). Don't make this matchmaking thing and put it on community servers, you achieve nothing or very little. The big core of a modern game nowadays is its official matchmaking system (where the real competition that attracts all the players is - casuals and pros in the same matchmaking system for at any time of the day you have someone to officially race against); community servers are just an alternative or can not be included in the game at all, especially if you only have Blancpain GT series. With community servers everyone is spread in leagues, communities, pubs. (In case the game allows mods and people make drift cars, then they might need a way to set up a server to play with others).
     
    Jynnantonix likes this.

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  3. Naer

    Naer Gamer

    Totally agree. I like how iRacing online system works, but I'm not willing to pay for it. A simpliest system but free is a must for me, like GT Sports does, a race every 15 minutes or so.

    However, I think allow the comunity to organize privates races and championships is important too and also could be a way to support the infrastucture without a subscription. On iRacing you can host a private race for 1$/h. That's a constant income and racing comunities would love it.

    For add some perspective, you can rent an Assetto Corsa server for 6$/month. Let's say a daily player base is around 2000 players, so, 24 players per server you need less than 100 servers to cover that player base (83.3333 exactly), but lets say 100 for peaks.That is only 600$/month, now, they just needs to host 600 private races to cover the cost.

    I really hyped for this.
     
  4. I am hoping for a mix between GT Sport and IRacing, one race every 30-60 minutes, you can use the time before race start to practise and(!) qualify. Once the race starts, everyone who is in the cue (let's be modest and say 100 people), it's spread into 5 splits a 20 players, classification according to rating (ala IRacing), qualifying position according to your best time you did before the race start. For me this would be the absolute perfect system.
    For a complete free matchmaking system like a shooter as @Quffy suggested, a sim racing title doesn't have nearly enough players unfortunately
     
    Erwin, Sparkiy, baliwa and 2 others like this.
  5. fbiehne

    fbiehne Hardcore Simmer

    I’d like to see a system similar to Iracing. Regular races every hour, divided into different splits so every racer gets into a split which fits to his/her rating.
    Another thing which I’d like to have is the need to register with your real name, I hate racing against RaCoooR92, GT_Superfast, **-AC_King05-** etc if you know what I mean. :D Real names means more immersion imo.
     
  6. a gt race that lasts 10-15mins isn't even worth bothering with, plus if you aren't prepared to pay for it then why would kunos bother putting time and effort into creating an iracing style online?

    i really hope its a subscription based pay, that shows commitment and also means the online will have longevity, a 1 off payment game certainly will not have the online system anything like iracing or anywhere near the longevity
     
    mtz.enjoi, Sparkiy and chksix like this.
  7. Turk

    Turk Alien

    I think a good online system that people are demanding needs a certain amount of infrastructure. I don't really see Kunos starting a subscription service but I think they should. Maybe not like iRacing where you have no choice but to pay a lot of money every month. But a pro mode where people can pay for managed online services.

    While a basic version can be done for free, if it requires management from people or is expansive to run once it becomes a financial burden it will be dropped like a hot potato.
     
  8. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    A subscription system will never reach enough numbers of people in the queue. Low numbers also attracts low numbers. Only the hardcore interested in serious racing will pay to race.

    A scheduled system also attracts small numbers because people have to wait for a certain a hour. Players actually want to find competitive racing at any time of the day.

    Is useless to follow models of past and current sim racing games or 3rd party services. The model that attracts a sizeable playing user base for online matchmaking is through official servers where players are put in a queue while the system finds them suitable opponents. No subscription, no schedule, no matchmaking rated community servers. Not a successful model and we have countless examples in sim racing of that.
     
  9. unknwn

    unknwn Alien

    An online system where pressing "Start Race" puts/registers you to a matchmaking rated community server (based on your rating/region/ping etc). Community created servers would be automatically marked as "matchmaking enabled" as a default option (when hosted) and integrated into an official "Start Race" queue feature of ACC made by Kunos. Is it possible?:D
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  10. If you can do qualifying as long as you as are in the queue this could work.
    Otherwise have fun waiting in the queue for half an hour to find enough people that match your skilllevel :p
    Scheduled system makes a lot more sense with the small playerbase a sim has
     
    Mitch09 likes this.
  11. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    Not all the, lets say 16 players, have to be of the same skilllevel/rank. In all matchmaking systems there's a range of players that get paired, within close ranks/tiers. When a player with less ranking points gets placed higher than a player with more ranking points (behind a displayed rank there's always more numbers attached to a player's skill level), he will win a lot and the higher rated player loses a lot. Basically the ELO system.

    That's why a matchmaking system on official server has to be free and available at all times, so that the whole community gets in the game. You can easily reach 3000 players in the queue at peak times during European evening. Because all the casual and dedicated players can access it. If the game isn't popular in USA and Asia, even among 500 in the queue looking for a competitive race will find a good enough grid to race against.

    The game company doesn't have control over community servers. So it's useless to give them rated matchmaking. We have a recent example of that, pcars2. They have rated matchmaking on community servers. Barely anyone plays that and just goes pub racing. Or just puts a large range of accepted ranks. So anyone enters.. Now good luck trying to find a high skilled server when you're free to play. So people go back to leagues.. everyone is spread in league communities and pub servers.

    But instead with a queue system on official servers the system will first try to find close opponents in terms of region and points, and if it doesn't it will expand the range bit by bit. There's no problem, for e.g. rank 1-2-3 playing together, in a system with lets say 20 ranks of skilled players. But is not hard to fill up a server with 10, 12, 16, 20 players. Maybe less points you win the less opponents in the server and in servers with large grids more points are at stake.

    With a queue system all players are connected at the same time. But the system will need a maximum amount of players to look for, which may depend on what Kunos aims to do with the blancpain regulations/competitive system they're creating.
     
  12. unknwn

    unknwn Alien

    The fact that you don't have direct quality control over community servers might be an issue e.g. a player might be angry that with official "Start race" queue he got connected to a laggy/ unstable server. However if such system is implemented it should check connection quality and latency. I haven't had any of these issues for quite a long time when joining random AC community servers except for quality of race/drivers which can be fixed with a good rating system e.g. MR AB is pretty good. If it works right now, why slapping official "ranked" on such servers shouldn't work? Basically there should be a predefined set of rules and requirements for ranked servers.
    With PCARS2 reason why people don't play ranked servers is different. In addition to buggy game (which might cause you to loose points), the rating system is not very good itself that's why you are better off without it.

    In BF4 you can select a game mode and press "Play now" (with an option to check or uncheck "ranked only" mode) which puts you to a server automatically.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  13. Naer

    Naer Gamer

    Mitch09 and nate like this.
  14. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    Too bad that I need to wait 1, 2, 3, hours for a race or the series I want. (For lotus 25 Session schedule*: 00:00, 06:00, 09:00, 12:00, 17:00, 22:00; other series have different schedule). And anyone can be in that specific race, noobs and pros. For some reason people are still in different places and not everyone using SRS for their serious racing. If you'd also put a subscription to that scheduled racing, it'd be even worse.

    A schedule ruins everything for many of us. If I open AC and I want to race in a competitive environment I shouldn't be forced to wait for a specific time. I can just press Start and the system puts me in a queue while it searches for suitable opponents which are also in the queue. In 30sec - 3 or 4min it finds everyone necessary for the grid and an option appears: "Accept" (with a warning: "You commit for 40min to 90min to a race. If you disconnect and then abandon - since you can disconnect and reconnect within 3-5min or if you press the abandon button after disconnecting - you will get a cooldown penalty" the more you do it the more time your cooldown has). The only way to do this is with official servers, not community run servers.
     
    souejiro likes this.
  15. Will multiplayer mode have real-time replay?
     
  16. Naer

    Naer Gamer

    SRS is not perfect, but is well enough to be unofficial. Obviously Kunos could and should (and I'm sure they will) a better job.

    Schedules races are totally necessary to ensure that enough people is ready. I they allow to join races at any time the amount of people will be smaller and rating will be useless.
    For example I want to race right now (17:55), I'm a "driver level C" and now are online only drivers with level A, then I have to run against drivers more much skillest than me. With scheluded racer everyone who want's to race will be prepared at the same time, more drivers, more splits and the level of each split will be more equally.
     
    mtz.enjoi, Erwin, nate and 2 others like this.
  17. Exactly. It's really not that hard to understand
     
  18. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    Just because there is a schedule doesn't mean people will want to wait until then + the time it takes till the end of the race.

    People who want to play right now are much more psychologically satisfied to join the queue at the same time as other people and get matched up automatically with suitable opponents.

    Giving the action to the user to search for a server, to search for a schedule, to search for same rated players, is a huge barrier for that person to actually give himself that trouble.

    Play - start - "joins the queue" - "the system does everything for you now" - press accept - everyone is connected to the server automatically, is the laziest and more efficient route to match up everyone the faster way and in a large scale.

    If you want to bore the player, sure make him wait for a schedule, make him look for suitable opponents, make him scroll, filter, look up the server list.

    I take it you never played csgo, dota2, rocket league, or games with similar matchmaking systems on official servers. Maybe you just played sim racing games, joined leagues, 3rd party systems, pub racing. And think that way is enough to keep people entertained online at the time they want to play, which is right this moment. With an automatic queue system the player at least knows he doesn't have to do anything else, just wait a bit of time and press accept.
     
    Naer likes this.
  19. Hoppers work on games that have ten thousand people on at once. ACC will be lucky to have 1200-1700 during peak hours.
     
    Minolin likes this.
  20. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Simracer

    If ACC had the online traffic of those games they could do whatever they want with the online and it would work. They won't, so they have to choose the best option available to ensure relatively busy servers. Nothing stops you from hopping into a private lobby between or before/after scheduled races. Spreading a small number of players around at random times of the day would pretty much ensure terrible matchmaking at all but the most peak times.
     
    manuelecelestiale likes this.
  21. just look at the mess that pcars 2 is online, what a joke that is and a lack of structured organised online is probably the biggest factor

    if a race is scheduled for example 2pm and it 1:20pm then ppl have 40 mins to practice and get a setup, that half hour practice or so will make a world of difference to the race rather than random joe joining a lobby cause the race is 1 min away from starting and he doesn't know the track, and like above said it ensures more players in the races and better matchmaking as a result
     
    Johnnypenso and Naer like this.

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