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I'm bad, I'm slow. A bit depressed. Give me target times to achieve to be on pace

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Karsten Beoulve, Nov 26, 2019.

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  1. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    What steering rotation degrees do you have set in ACC and your wheel?
     
  2. Nao

    Nao Alien

    Went back and compared my try 1:45.1 vs your 1:46.5 and while we take significantly different line through first couple of turns, you go hard on entry gaining time and then loose it all on straights, but the first sector ends up actually really good. Comparing to what we saw in your video it's like driven by somebody else! But from the chicane it goes downhill. Like literally 0.5s time loss in the chicane, then string of "ok" corners and you overslow and underaccelerate in the last 3 corners to loose 0.7s.

    Comparing other laps the trend of the last corners continues. I made myself a rotation channel and you seem to be diving in too early and then stalling the rotation. So the issue with exit isn't really late throttle but late rotation.
    And in general when looking at the first 2-4 brakings they are solid, but then you look at the last 3-5 braking in a lap and it's an inconsistent mess, lots of overslowing and in general inconsistent entry speeds leading to bad exits. Hence we are hammering the brakes as the reason.

    What stands out for me is that you are often too hard on the brakes, slowing down too much loosing time, then you almost coast to apex where it switches around and you are too fast, causing you to underrotate which kills the exit.
    So the issue might be that you are pretty good at straight line braking and standard corner entries but struggle with sweeping entries where you brake and turn for extended periods of time. This is also a hint of taking the wrong line, but it's hard to tell immediately from motec.

    Anyways, 1:46.5 isn't all that bad at all imho. It's pretty far from 1:44.5 n1lyn but thats quite well pushed lap.


    ps: tried to do GPS telemetry from acceleration channels, but it does not connect properly (maybe because of track cambers) and there are other issues so don't think it will be useful at the crappy frequency we have.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
    Jetsun and Karsten Beoulve like this.
  3. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    yeah yeah to right..
     
  4. I think it's 900 as Aris suggested to use
     
    Coanda likes this.
  5. EsxPaul

    EsxPaul Gamer

    I think @Karsten Beoulve is onto something regarding the throttle position in ACC. I use Sprint pedals and I've also noticed that that the relationship is not exactly one to one, as it is in all the other games.

    With me, it only takes about 20% of actual throttle throw for the in game bar to register 50%. I've tried playing with the Smart Control software to try and dial it out but without success.

    As I exit corners with just a slight amount of pressure on the pedal, the game is showing 50% ish range, which causes the car to understeer. I'm having to use 20%+ lower deadzone to stop this which isn't ideal.

    Gonna have to look into this a little deeper.
     
  6. Luis Branco

    Luis Branco Hardcore Simmer

    Perhaps worth checking/changing the ECU map used.
    Different maps have different throttle maps, it’s not only power and consumption that are different.
     
    EsxPaul likes this.
  7. n1lyn

    n1lyn Gamer

  8. Ok since many asked (and many stated i'm doing everything wrong) i took another hotstint and this is the replay of my usual racing lines. Lap is a 1.47.4xx so, very slow but more or less my current pace



    I tried btw to include the suggestions of all users here in my driving, maybe it doesn't shows, but oh well :D

    I hope this will help pinpoint some of my issues.
     
  9. Max Doubt

    Max Doubt Racer

    Hi mate, I'm not too much quicker but I can see that you're a bit later to get on full throttle. Maybe try waiting a split second longer on full steer with zero throttle, then when you feel the rotation get on the gas all at once as you open the steering. If you can try to achieve this transition on the inside of the driving line you'll have the grip to pull it off as it pushes across the licorice. All the best!
     
  10. Nesja

    Nesja Racer

    Your driving does seem much improved from the first videos. But need cockpit perspective to give real feedback.
     
  11. Nao

    Nao Alien

    Oh boi a heli cam lol. This will be interesting to decipher.

    T1: You are turning from the middle of the track. The point of trailbraking and jumping to the inside is less about shortening the distance and more about getting the rotation done. The farther you start to go toward the inside of the track, the less rotated you will be. Which means either slower mid corner speed, or going wide on exit.
    Your mid corner speed was low enough that you finished the turn around middle of the track too. Keeping the car on the limit is nice, but it only gives you good laptime when it's combined with well pushed line.

    T3: Pretty good, although you could have braked a bit later and continue to slow down in the turn. Even if you overslowed initially, you release the pedal too early and enter the corner a bit too fast which washes you wide. I think you should either aim to be on the white line throughout the turn or do a double apex line braking much deeper into the turn. Then you didn't accelerate early enough finishing the corner on the inside. Which is again a line problem. There are kerbs on the other side of the track, and where are kerbs it means that other drivers try to gain time by going off track. In GT3 we kind of want to be flat through T3 so we don't go that far, but still it's only "just". The more you can extend T2 to the outside the better.

    T6: Nice, I think being more decisive on the pedals will net you some time, rest comes down to pushing boundaries.

    T7: Really hard to make it "right". If you'd brake a little bit earlier and be more to the outside, you could turn in earlier and reach the inside riding the brakes. Then accelerate earlier so that you are on the kerbs on exit. Still, it was ok.

    T8/9 chicane: Get more space on the outside, the rubber markings on the kerb suggest drivers often brake on them. It looks ok, but comparing speeds you are down 6-8km/h on the first apex - you can take much more speed there, and it carries over to T10.

    T10: Idk, due to notification lol. Feels like you could take more speed into the turn, but generally good.

    T11: Very good, except for too late acceleration. That's easy to fix, and you likely drive it better in other laps.

    T13: Tricky, but again, look at rubber on kerbs - that's the apex. You slow down a bit too much, and are too early on the throttle as a consequence this moves the apex earlier and you end up off track on exit. Try to get full throttle as you prepare to climb the rubbered apex kerbs. But like with T11 you probably done better on other laps.

    T14: Noticed this in other corners, but you seem to drift to the the middle of the track on straights, and then jump to outside during braking. This isn't bad per se, but in your case makes you not use the full extent of the track - like in T8, you can get slightly on the kerbs in braking there.
    Then you are braking totally different to what you normally do in T1/T3 etc. The braking zone might look different due to track elevation change, but you should try using the same technique and trailbrake into the turn to get as much rotation as possible which will increase your mid corner speed and allow for full throttle much earlier. Even the kerbing is very similar to T1 so try to copy what you do there.

    T15: Looks exactly like T3 on entry, with better exit. Thou you should be harder on the throttle. The car can take it but it's tricky, i struggle there too.

    T16: Starting the corner from the middle of the track isn't the end of the world there, but it's possible to carry much more speed with wider line and less braking. Accelerating way before apex is a big no-no tohu. If you don't trust the car just carry more speed and let it push a bit wide. The corner is so long and not symmetrical that you can then use the wider position to accelerate earlier.

    It looks like in some corners (most noticable in the last one as well as T7) you are not controlling the rear slip angle of your car well enough. As just before adding throttle the car is gaining more and more slip angle which then suddenly is reduced as you push it down. High initial slip angle means the car will snap oversteer if the exit is bumpy and you add too much - which likely makes you wary of pushing the throttle. Less slip after punching it means you have unused grip that could be used to turn. So instead of modulating throttle to avoid oversteers, modulate the steering to have lower slip as you approach the acceleration zone, and punch throttle harder so that the reserve grip catches the car and keeps it turning tightly. It's like steering-pedal coordination but taken to another level, by actively thinking of rear slip angle.

    Beside that it's about pushing the track limits even more. If you want more solid (and shorter!) analysis we need cockpit cam, as TV cam is a guesswork.
     
    Jetsun likes this.
  12. I'll make some other sessions and then record the replay from inside view next time to post it. I used helicam because i was told i was basically clueless about the lines to take and i thought it was a god way to show the lines i took.
     
  13. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    I think all the time you have spent writing responses on this thread; if spent practicing, you could have easily shaved another 1 second off your time.. :p
     
  14. Tim Wilson

    Tim Wilson Racer

    We're bad, We're slow. And a bit depressing. All he wanted was target times and he get's thrown under a microscope. :eek:;)
     
  15. Doubt it, but i do check the thread a few times a day lol.

    I do not mind if it can make me any closer to be competitive or on pace!
     
  16. And here it is a replay of a 1.47.4xx from inside view, it's the same lap i posted on helicam



    @Nao @Nesja
     
  17. Nesja

    Nesja Racer

    There is still weird behavior in your driving.

    T1: braking was too early, too hard. You didn't carry enough speed into the apex. So you end up on the throttle before even reaching the apex to correct too hard braking.
    Essentially the moment you need most grip for turning the car, you accelerate, taking away valuable grip from cornering.
    You also seem to lack confidence in the car to grip up.

    T2: It's wide. If you don't want to trailbrake, you can get nearer the apex while braking in a straight line. Let the car really hit the apex before going on throttle.
    In the video you're on the throttle while still turning the hardest you did in this corner. Your accelerating will take grip from the turning.

    T4: Is ok, but before you reach he braking zone you move to the outside before than turning in.
    I see this a few times in the video. It's almost like you want to do a rally flick. Even with the drify nature of the NSX, it's still GT3. These cars want smoothness.

    T5: Fear of turning in/letting the car grip up.
    On the throttle hard while your steering is at its maximum lock throughout the corner.

    T8: Missed apex a bit, but you were not as afraid of letting the car grip in the corner here. Take this feeling with you.
    Slight overturning on exit.

    T9: on/off throttle through corner.

    T10: Missed apex, seems some fear of going to the apex.

    T11: A lot of overturning to compensate going wide. This doesn't work.

    T12: Very wide. Missed entry and apex. Seems some fear of getting near apex.

    T13: Similar to T2. Braking in straight line, but not toward apex. No confidence to just let the car grip up.
    During the turn you stay heavily on throttle during your max steering angle through that corner.

    T14: on and off throttle. But it's not as bad as some of the other corners. You missed entry a bit, so you try to compensate a bit I guess.

    Overall: You lose a lot of time because I think you don't trust the car to have grip off-throttle.
    Your braking points need to improve as well.

    Going forward try to split your corners into clear braking, off-throttle turning, and going on-throttle only when you know you won't have to decrease throttle anymore.
    If you only want to brake in a straight line and not do trailbraking, aim more toward the apex.
     
  18. Piret2000

    Piret2000 Racer



    This is a video from a real racer and coach simracer David Perel, try his 3 racing tips, maybe they'll help you
     
  19. Burnleyhome

    Burnleyhome Rookie

    This it's a great thread

    Thanks for all this input guys. I drive a different car and get slower lap times, but all this advice is soooooo useful for me and helps me improve.

    Mega community.
     
  20. Nao

    Nao Alien

    Thanks :)

    Yeah in corners that have just one very clear line like the T6 (high speed left) you are doing great, but for most others you aren't using the whole width of the track and often "square the circle" meaning you have only a few fixed turning rates and switch between them which slows you down. As seen in T1 for example you do have a good technique of adding more and more steering as you approach the apex, the issue is that it's not actually working, as in you are understeering and adding more steering does nothing to change the rotation of the car. Which then creates an effect like i was talking about earlier with brakes and ABS - too much of either ABS braking or turning creates a deadzone, where as you start to reduce the input (unwind the steering) the tyres actually gain grip and initially the car deepens the turn. If the car was at this point on the edge of stability from bumps or too much throttle, it will snap oversteer loosing you confidence in the car. But it's not an issue with the car but the steering, so it can be fixed!

    And just as my advice with turning off ABS, i'd recommend here to drive the car with much more oversteery balance for a while. Like really make the car "undrivable" and drive to the best of your abilities to not spin out. This will make it visible clear as day where the actual limit is, exactly how much steering you need at given weight transfer, and what are the exact handling characteristics of the car. After that when you turn back to standard setup you will be able to take more speed into the turns gaining time and exploiting track limits should be easier.

    To put it in different perspective, for a drifter that can slide without handbrake this is "the basics" you are struggling with. So if you didn't try drifting in that 10years of simracing, now it would be a good time to try plugging that skill hole.
    TBH i see simracers diss drifting a lot, but it's funny/sad how many of them would improve laptimes and consistency by actually learning to drift. Because at the end of the day it's all about car control (or to be more precise, it's about the ability to keep the front wheels honest in relation to the ground at all times).


    ps: Of course you could just practice more, but personally i've found that challenging yourself and getting out of comfort zone gets the initial learning done quicker and then when you practice properly you improve quicker too. It often helps getting out of "being stuck" or "hitting a wall" skill wise.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019 at 3:46 AM
    Jetsun likes this.
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