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Generic Interview with Lord Kunos about community, consoles, future

Discussion in 'Console Lounge' started by ZX636, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. ZX636

    ZX636 Hardcore Simmer


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  3. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien


    The thing is though, that was always clear from the start. They sold the sim as the console version of the PC sim and while admittedly there are some features lacking so far that's exactly what it is. It doesn't offer many gamey features, that was always clear from the PC version and I don't understand why people got the impression that would change for the console version. It's a hardcore sim, it was sold as a hardcore sim, if someone goes into it expecting it to be something different that's on that person. Perhaps marketing should've been even more clear about it.

    Also, Kunos needs to stop thinking console users are so different. It's only more apparent on console because of the launch issues, the lack of certain features and modding. Two of those they need to fix ASAP. PC users have been asking for a proper expanded career mode for ages and don't understand why this didn't change with the console version (well I get it, lack of time), perhaps Kunos remembers that the current career was just a placeholder back in the day of PC development... custom championships should be only be the start to change that and expand the feature set to offer people incentives to race.
     
    Salad Fingers and Miticorio like this.
  4. Daniel Wood

    Daniel Wood Gamer

    worth a read id agree, just goes to show that maybe ac was mismarketed slightly for the consoles release.. as i assume a lot of people expect to be able to pick this up and be smashing laps and getting golds on the challenges when in reality.. a very few of the users are actually capable of doing so.. not because the 'game' is hard but because driving well, consistently and clean is actually hard, requires a good knowledge of the track, the car, the weight transfer, cars setup, temps and concentration.. we'd all be able to jump in a f1 car and put in laps like lewis or nico if this was a 'game'..
     
  5. ingrobny

    ingrobny Gamer

    From the interview:

    "I think the audience on console was expecting an experience where they could crash and spin a few times and still be able to get back to the AI cars."

    No please Kunos don't change that, it's one of the thing who makes AC more realistic, i don't expect to be able to get back to the AI after a crash.
     
  6. MBK72

    MBK72 Hardcore Simmer

    Thanks for the link, well worth reading. Eurogamers console review was one of the best at launch, they identified pretty much all of this from the start.

    I still think AC/KS have had, and are still getting, a sympathetic time from the gaming press compared to pCARS and others who've launched similarly flawed products. I'd like to have seen a few tougher articles on some of the repeated mistakes and limited progress.

    I also think some of the basics are missed here. AC on the consoles has superb handling but many other parts of a race simulation are missing, track limits in races and online being the glaring omission. Flags and rules are clearly too much to ask for. Nothing here mentioned the missing basics like the ability to use all the assigned functions in the cars from the approved wheels or customise button configurations. These are basics of a good racing simulation so I think there is still plenty of work on just the simulation side of things.

    As for not being good at games, that is true and good of the Lord to acknowledge. I think it's a more fundamental problem, though. KS don't seem to have a good grasp on some of the basics of human psychology that make games successful. The approach is typical of technically minded people, all technical and detailed forgetting that human interaction is the key factor. Sure the more analytically minded and those willing to tinker, hello PC only gang, are happy but that is a niche in itself.

    Surely no one is asking for silly cinematic career modes that have been attempted and failed so many times but just a few things that would have made the game so much better:

    1. A simulation and race driving school to help those new to sim racing make the leap (optional for the pros of course). Does anyone else remember how addictive those Gran Turismo license tests were all those years ago? Something similar to teach people the AC approach to driving and racing would have gone a long way. Throw in a familiar racing face and voice and you've added some human warmth to the process. The aim remains to teach sim driving and help people improve. Seeing progression, improvement and triggering the dopamine system all in one would make a much better early experience.

    2. A career mode built on progression. No need for car modification as in the article, that is better for simcade games. A career mode that feels like actual progress to faster and more difficult to drive cars is being made. The current AC career mode is soulless. pCARS and Forza 6 offer the extremes of fully open and more linear progression. A real fit for the AC system would surely be to simulate the real race licence system. On a track day, you get to drive anything (opening all content for the impatient), to race it you need to have shown some skill in the form of a licence based on the ability to drive the car safely at a reasonable pace and demonstrate some racecraft. Stay with the simulation values but at the same time make a game of it, build a sim based progression system. Finally nailing that seemingly impossible lap time in the trickiest of cars would be the reward in itself.

    Although I've said all this as ways to improve the game side of things I still maintain that had the online multiplayer been right from the start with private lobbies 80+% of the complaints would have been resolved. Committed races like to race with the like-minded with a free choice of content and tracks to use. They fill in all the psychological blanks for themselves once they have that sense of control. A solid multiplayer system remains the answer.

    As for the conundrum should KS keep making games? My answer at this time would be no. A big studio who understand the game and console aspect buying them in to create the handling model for their game would be a better solution all round. Forza 7 with car handling by KS would be quite something. If KS do intend to make more 'games' I think more focus on the psychology of gaming would be the biggest improvement they could make.
     
  7. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    o_O

    I guess everyone including the developer has a different definition of 'game'.
     
  8. ingrobny

    ingrobny Gamer

    "If we want to sell more copies than we've done with Assetto Corsa, we'll have to make more of a game. That doesn't mean dumbing down the simulation - it means making something that guides you through an experience, regardless of how hard the driving is. For example, the console is really just a matter of having a low level AI that's a little bit slower, allowing people to not get punched in the face when they play for the first time."

    This gives me the hope back :) and you will at least have one customer, me.
     
    Reinart86, paul_wev and MBK72 like this.
  9. ZapZap8

    ZapZap8 Rookie

    I really do hope they get to read this post cause they could really really really use some of those features you mentioned

    Sent from my ZUK Z1 using Tapatalk
     
    paul_wev, Larryf1951 and MBK72 like this.
  10. danowat

    danowat Hardcore Simmer

    That is exactly the kind of attitude that leads to many of the problems, when the developer themselves see console users as a lower tier of players, there are massive issues.

    Kunos needs to look towards Frontier Devs, all versions have parity, when a patch releases on PC, a patch release on XBO, if they can manage to make it work, why can't Kunos?
     
  11. SlimCharles

    SlimCharles Alien

    Nooo, for godness sake. Dont even think about water down the physics model.

    Assetto corsa only needs more features like private lobbies, custom championship, leaderboards, custom mapping, online rating...

    But no bullsh*t fake racing game features, like AI that catches up, fake tunning (in Dirt Rally this thing water down the inmersion), rewinds...
     
  12. MBK72

    MBK72 Hardcore Simmer

    Not quite sure what you mean by the confused look, I was responding to the question asked by the article:

    "To be honest with you, I'm not 100 per cent sure that we even want to make games! It's a difficult situation right now where we're trying to decide what we want to do next. Of course Assetto Corsa is designed in a certain way, it's not going to change. It's going to be interesting to see in the future where we go - of course we'd like to do a better game, whether or not we can do it I don't know."

    My view is they would be better off in business to business sales. Sell their considerable expertise in car handling and feel directly to those who better understand how to make a game. That is all. The whole article was about the studio stumbling when it comes to making games.

    Other than the unique handling and feel of the cars if you examine AC it adds nothing at all new to the sim/race/ racing game genre. Great simulator on PC, good and improving sim on the consoles, flawed game on all.
     
  13. ZX636

    ZX636 Hardcore Simmer

    Yes, It was. I didn't buy AC thinking It would have something other racing games feature (a more complex career mode and better progression, for example) but I still appreciate the honesty in Stefano's answers and his thoughts about console development. When people asked for an easier challenge, Kunos gave them a "very easy" AI setting. That made the "game" better for them, while keeping the "sim" intact. Just one example, of course but this is definitely the right path and I'm not the first one who ever said that. Bring the brilliance of the core game to every single thing around it, from more, really needed options to better features. To achieve this, Kunos need to get better at making "games" and understanding what players and racers would like to see. After all, If we are here, It's because we love Assetto. Every (reasonable) suggestion made in the past four months was (and still is) aimed at improving the overall experience, which will get better and better with private lobbies, customized championships, more control options etc.

    On a side note, they could have been more clear about what was missing in the console versions: showroom and photomode, just to name two things.
     
  14. ingrobny

    ingrobny Gamer

    "To be honest with you, I'm not 100 percent sure that we even want to make games! It's a difficult situation right now where we're trying to decide what we want to do next. Of course Assetto Corsa is designed in a certain way, it's not going to change. It's going to be interesting to see in the future where we go - of course we'd like to do a better game, whether or not we can do it I don't know."

    Oh wow... it looks like the AC future for us console owners is uncertain for sure :(.
     
  15. danowat

    danowat Hardcore Simmer

    Yup, reads to me like they wouldn't mind dropping console support.
     
    ingrobny likes this.
  16. djtopa

    djtopa Hardcore Simmer

    As a PC user I can only wish they keep up just like they did till today because AC is best sim/game I have ever played.I cant beleve how some people behave here if you dont like it , dont play it and be happy LOL
    NHF to enyone Im just sayin what I feel...
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  17. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    You might want to read some of the reviews and reception of the console version to get the context. Yeah maybe he shouldn't say it out loud but he's not wrong, a large part of the public perception of the title was to criticise that it's not as forgiving as other titles. And I don't think he meant it demeaning, he's directly mentioning that they need ways to get console players into building up the skill required for the sim, "making something that guides you through an experience, regardless of how hard the driving is","allowing people to not get punched in the face when they play for the first time", which he happily admits is lacking in the sim right now. He's not talking down on you by mentioning that.

    Seriously, you guys should stop being so damn negative.
     
    Horus and ingrobny like this.
  18. MBK72

    MBK72 Hardcore Simmer

    Fully agree about Frontier, that is the studio that draws the best comparison with AC for me. The Elite universe was an empty and severely limited place in Beta but the developer kept everyone informed of progress and some big leaps were made quickly.

    When the console version was released, again in beta (or preview) it was the current PC build, not one from 3 years ago making all the same mistakes again. Frontier clearly thought through the controller limitations and made that work too. There were few people who thought something as complex would work on console but they proved it could be done.

    The model is there to be followed.
     
    danowat likes this.
  19. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    Definitely.
     
    ZX636 likes this.
  20. danowat

    danowat Hardcore Simmer

    There is a lot to be negative about, but none of that, for me, is to do with the core experience, some of it comes from the PC crowd who think that console gamers don't deserve a product like AC, some of it comes from the second class nature that the developers seem to give console gamers, PC gamers are at the table, console gamers get the crumbs.

    Their vision should be their vision, they should make the game they want to make, they don't need to pander to anyone, if a user thinks the game is too hard, or too much for them, then that is their problem, not the games problem.

    The driving isn't "hard" per say, driving in PCars is much harder, I don't think that's what puts people off, obviously the bare bones nature of the game will look odd to some console gamers, but that's tough, what puts people off is **** like missing features from the top tier version, and problems like the season pass issue happening over, and over, and over, and things like the RP and PP2 releasing without special events, and no one even commenting on the issue, despite numerous posts about it.

    The model is there to follow, like I said, Frontier Devs, Elite is what it is, despite it being on console and PC, they don't pander to anyone, the product has complete parity across the board, AC is a cakewalk compared to the learning curve in Elite, and that hasn't been much of an issue.
     
    paul_wev likes this.
  21. Manu8019

    Manu8019 Gamer

    i like how Ac is with physics , i dont want a need for speed from AC this is a sim and people need to deal with it , what i really need and i think that almost all players that like Ac need/want is the private lobbys to start competition going in Ac , i just hope all people that rage against kunos cause this is a hard game go play need for speed or any of that arcade games , people need to understand this is a simulator and not a arcade game that u crash and win , that you push to get trophies , thats what i know most of console people do , im a console player but im one of those that play games to have fun with friends and i dont care about gold medals or trophies or anything like that , mostly i play AC , Dirt Rally and Pcars cause i dont have a escape for competition , as soon as Ac set us Private lobbies ill say good bye to Pcars , but yeah id love to start competing in this game

    so i say " Kunos keep the good work tks for this massive amazing cars , physics and tracks , if we could have more cars/tracks nice but what we need is the private lobbies " hehe :D
     

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