Is lift off oversteer completly undesirable?

You can always apply less pressure to the brakes. I don't touch the throttle when I am braking.

 

I'm amazed at how little brake pressure it takes (on my G25) to make a difference. I wonder sometimes if by covering the brake I'm actually slowing myself down.

 

Yeah, that is Rule #1 IMHO. So many people are brushing the throttle, touching it too soon after a braking zone, contributes to a lot of the mid-corner oversteer I see online. It takes a lot of patience to be fast, sometimes it can feel like you're going slow, but you have to trust the tyres and the mechanical grip, esp. in slow corners. Hamilton has referenced this numerous times in post-race press meetings, feels like forever till you get back on the throttle.

 

when i am driving for pleasure i love it, when i am racing i hate it

LOO is a caracteristic of a car that you start to enjoy once you are in a advance level of driving, before you can achive this driving level is a dangerous caracteristic you need to get rid off if you want to be consistent.

coast torque can help to get LOO but you can cancel it of the ecuation by doing heel and toe, in cars like the e30 DTM you need to really buit the rpm before you let go the cluth to avoid locking the rear.

in RL, street cars that have this caracteristic are called widow makers because they are going to let go the rear wen you dont want to or are braking to avoid a crash, so unless you are confortable and ready to do some countersteer at any time stay away of this type of cars(irl and in the sim).

 

I enjoy driving LOO cars, a lot. The McLaren GT3 is one, also the Lotus Elise. I don't find it particularily hard to handle but you have to work your way there. If I drive a car for the 1st time and notice it's a LOO car I force myself to take it easy for a few laps. Entering a corner too fast is likely to cause a spin, whereas non-LOO cars would just plow. Once you got the entry right, corner exit is pretty much just putting your foot down.

 

LOO is rly bad if u have to right foot brake (h-shifter), like old dtm cars. I think they just have unnatural amount of engine brake.
Left foot braking its not a problem until u have to counter-steer, then ur in trouble.
I find the loo a tool for fwd-awd cars. Cos they're dead on power, you might as well have fun chucking it in.
But, I actually prefer power-oversteer. Long live good old FR layout.

 

If you're completely-manual shifting & have LOO issues just change down later, like just before you're about to stamp on the throttle again. That takes a little getting used to too, but less engine braking issues. No need to H&T then either.

I like lifting off & having the back rotate a bit, as long as it's gentle.

 

Daniel Ricciardo used it to great effect to get the all time record on Top Gear in the "reasonably priced car". Go to 5:10 for the start of the lap:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2h0l7s

 

I do this because i haven't learned to heel-toe yet. my feet are just too stupid.

 

I don't use heel & toe, and I right foot brake. That means that I have to make sure that the revs are low enough before I change down (and I go down through each gear just like I do in my real world car). I make mistakes now and again (I made more when I first started using Assetto Corsa), but I am improving. Another "feature" that I have had to get used to is a manual sixth gear in some cars. It might sound daft, but I had never used a manual sixth gear before purchasing Assetto Corsa, so it felt a bit strange changing down to fifth gear. It's just a psychological thing, and the fact that the BMW M3 E30 DTM is so twitchy under braking didn't help matters! It's probably just as well that the Skoda Octavia FSI 2.0 Estate that I purchased a few months ago has six gears, so I am now getting some real world practice

 

no not completely undesirable, quite fun at times

but my road car as standard does have severe lift off oversteer which causes a lot of them to exit the road backwards when driven by noobs, this pushes up my insurance premiums so in that respect it is undesirable

 

What do you mean by road traffic noobs? You are not supposed to drive your everyday car on the limit. I only discovered that fwd cars are extremely dangerous in AC.

 

When you find a tractor pulling out across your right of way without looking and the road covered in muck, you can find yourself on the limit at surprisingly low speeds... defensive driving from day 1 where I learned to drive

 

unfortunately my car attracts the idiots, "wicked type r bruv innit" not the sort who know what lift over oversteer is let alone what to do when they encounter it, being used to their safe understeering vauxhalls they enter a corner a little too fast so lift off or even dab the brakes a bit = car written off, another bad mark on the statistics for the EP3

Even a few years ago when they were newer and not in the sub 2k price bracket the claim rate against them was significantly higher than more powerful cars in the same or higher insurance group (18 on the old scale of 20), insurance prices followed the high claims; lol when I was 1st looking to buy the car one insurance company guy basically said that I would write the car off within 6 months so we're not insuring you (I was over 30 years old too)

 

If you don't like LOO, you don't like driving.

 

Thats a fwd. Lift off oversteer is something you want in a non competition fwd car if you want any performance driving out of it. All hot hatches are built with loo specifically dialed in to make them do more than just understeer.

 

So to be clear I like it even in RWDs. Lifting for oversteer instead of flooring for oversteer is something I quite enjoy.
In the current Sport Auto issue the new Audi R8 Plus is tested. The author/driver claims that the car remains in shape and safe all the time if driven "unter Zug" which means with a little throttle applied. It's what you need to do with LOO cars...unless you really know what you're doing a little bit of throttle should almost always be there.

 

Why are you putting lift off oversteer and car brakes in same sentence?
If oversteer happen when brakes are applied than it is not loo.
Problems with DTM cars are mostly because of incorrect shifting down and have nothing to do with loo.

For loo, most of the time, the guilty part for that kind of behavior, is engine braking (back torque) but not always. Sometimes it is too soft suspension or too high rake because it is all about weight transfer and disturbing what is left of rear tires grip depending on tire loads.

Personally, I like it because I`m lazy on steering wheel input so having option to correct line via right foot suits me well.

 

You answered your own question

I like the LOO in the Lotus's's's's, it's a character of the car IRL so I like it in AC.

Left foot braking and rev matching is about the only way I can handle it. Heel/toe doesn't allow enough precision on the throttle to balance it properly, unless you're really good at H/T....which I'm not!

@bondyboy another Type R met it's demise a few weeks ago near where I live in exactly the way you described. When I saw it embedded in a rather large old tree I did wonder how the hell he manged to get it in there, but yeah, LOO explains it perfectly now that you mention it.

Positive note: Both driver and young passenger walked away unscathed. The rear end of the car was unrecognizable.

 

One of us do not understand term lift off oversteer.
This is oversteer without applies brakes, throttle off only.

If we talk about oversteer with applied brakes than we are talking about something else because cause and "cure" for that kind of behavior could be different (brake ballance for example) ...

And everything is about weight transfer. Loo, turn in under/over steer, on throttle under/over steer ... if you address your problem properly, it is easier to find solution.