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Jetseat: immersion upgrade for AC

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Mike1304, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. Mike1304

    Mike1304 Alien


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  3. konnos

    konnos Simracer

    This is starting to get sexual...
     
    aotto1977 and Mike1304 like this.
  4. demetri

    demetri Hardcore Simmer

    I also got it recently and would like to know what software you use for it and if it is SimShakerWheels how you have configured it. I tried the demo version, but it looks like front and rear wheel slips feel the same as they use the same set of motors and also I'd decrease the length of vibration happening upon hitting curbs and bumps (making that effect similar to the gear change one) but I don't know if that's possible.
     
  5. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN Alien

    How does that differ from a buttkicker? Does it work with SimVibe? It just vibrates all motors at once, no "positional" feedback?
     
  6. demetri

    demetri Hardcore Simmer

    I doubt that it works with simvibe, because this thing has its own unique API to control vibration motors. You probably might try to use audio mode of this JetSeat and simvibe, but AFAIK it is limited to two channels only, so forget about activating different motors separately, left-right is probably the best it can do with it.

    Here's a sort of review, but a flight-sim centric one: https://www.helisimmer.com/reviews/gametrix-kw-908-jetseat-turbojet/

    I also find the price of 169EUR outrageous for what it is. It's just a fake leather pad with 8 vibration motors inside and some control electronics. Mine was bought in Russia for 50EUR or so and I wouldn't pay significantly more for it.
     
  7. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Maybe that's a region-dependent thing but if the quality is right, that price is mighty fine. I couldn't build that myself for this kind of money. Surely, the electronics should be able to drive at least 2 zones. 4 Would be epic because then you could slightly activate the seat rest region to convey acceleration and the seat region to convey road bumps.

    A product like this also depends 100 % on the software. If it stupidly starts to rumble whenever you change gears or so - garbage. When it wisely combines slip rate, tyre load etc. into a rumble information on grip loss it can be a winner.

    Since you have it, why do you speculate on what it can do instead of testing it?!?
     
  8. demetri

    demetri Hardcore Simmer

    The only software that you can use with simracing games that currently supports this device is SimShaker-Wheels which is developed by a 3rd party developer and costs extra. I tried its demo version and found that it can't produce different effects for front and rear wheels slips. Only left and right separation is supported currently.

    Here's the list of effects supported:
    Gear Shift Effect (whenever you change the gear)
    Tire Lock Effect (never saw it activating in AC, got left/right slip instead)
    Engine Beat Effect (didn't try it)
    Bump (Left Side),
    Bump (Right Side),
    Bump (again, I think I only had left/right bumps happening in AC)
    Wheel Slip Effect (Left Side)
    Wheel Slip Effect (Right Side)
    Damage (obvious what it is)
    AccZ Back motors (longitudinal acceleration?)
    AccZ Front motors (longitudinal deceleration? )
    AccX Left side motors (lateral acceleration, didn't try yet)
    AccX Right side motors (lateral acceleration, didn't try yet)

    For each effect you can set any combination of vibration zones out of 6 available (thighs, lower back, upper back left and right), intensity of vibrations and the length of the effect. Anything below 50ms is barely noticeable probably because the motors take some time to spin up.

    You can set thresholds for some effects, so that they won't trigger unless a certain amount of, say, wheel slip is detected and I think it also tries to modulate the vibration intensity based on the amount of that slip (or whatever the effect is for) after the threshold.

    Honestly, it is a bit of fun, but I would not call that a game changer. Maybe with a bit more tinkering I could extract something really useful from it, but without being able to configure effects for each wheel slip individually I doubt it.
     
  9. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    I see. The options available from that software sound quite good, already IMO.

    But I need to explain: I do that stuff myself. I created AC RumbleKit - a pedal vibration app including an Arduino and self-built motor drivers. So far, there's only brake vibration available and very few use it because it's not that plug and play most are looking for - it takes like 1 day to install from looking up parts to firing up AC.

    But I can tell you: the amount of car state information you can get out of this is incredible. I'm not talking immersion BS...I'm talking a reasonable mix of telemetry values mixed into vibration signals that will tell you something useful for going faster and driving more intuitively.
    For the brake pedal, this is an absolute game changer.

    Now I imagine that vibrator seat/mat in combination with my own software <3
     
  10. Mike1304

    Mike1304 Alien

    The Jetseat has 8 motors (rumble zones).

    I connect it to my PC with USB. I use the software „SimShaker Wheels“ which has support for several racing sims and therefore activates the right motors automatically (for example for longitudinal acceleration, when stepping on the throttle automatically the rear motors on your back are activated, whereas when you drive over a bump or curb the left or right bottom motors under your butt are activated...)

    With the software you can configure the effects though. I turned off the permanent vibration of the motor itself (turned it from the default 10% gain to zero) and activated the acceleration effect (from 0% to 80% because I like the effect, especially when starting a race!), turned deceleration from 0% to 30% (so I can also feel, when I brake) and turned the wheel spin effect to 70%..

    I’m totally happy with this product and wanted to tell you because maybe someone can need this too (I didn’t even know that such a thing exists two weeks ago...)

    I live in a flat and have no space for a real motion rig and didn’t even buy a buttkicker because I feared that the vibrations could be a problem for my neighbors. Now I found a product which increases immersion extremely (in addition to my Rift), is very silent, has no “bad vibrations” for my neighbours but still strong effects for my own body! And the effects are “real” because they are triggered from ingame Force Feedback physics engine and not only from “soundcard” (although even this would be possible with Jetseat and also in combination with buttkicker...).
    Maybe my info thread makes someone happy, like it made me happy! :p

    Just have a look at the picture from this link for better explanation:
    https://dreamsimteam.blogspot.co.at/2016/12/simshaker-wheels-beta-version-11.html
     
    grandepunto, Solmyr, Jebus and 3 others like this.
  11. Jack_NL

    Jack_NL Simracer

    Nice kit! I see a used one for € 150 in NL the guy selling it mentions he uses it for simracing but doesnt add immersion (in his opinion) I keep it on my wishing list to test it myself

    Remember the day's you had to rent a "A.R.I.S" to get some additional force feedback?

     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
    chksix, Seven Smiles, Minolin and 2 others like this.
  12. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    Thank you for your post, I could use something like that too in addition to my butkicker. As opposed to @LeDude83 immertion is not BS to me it is everything and the core reason I am into SIM racing, so anything that helps without breaking the bank will get my attention and is worth some research and efforts.
     
    Solmyr and Mike1304 like this.
  13. demetri

    demetri Hardcore Simmer

    I'm also mostly interested in providing car state information rather than immersion. There's an SDK for this JetSeat with a rather simple COM-object API (http://www.gametrix.ru/files/drivers/UBW_SDK.rar, but all the documentation and comments in the code samples there are in Russian), so you sure can make a custom application for it which will do whatever you program it to do. If there's a real interest, I can translate the documentation to English, it's not very big, but even automatic google translation (see attached) looks decent enough for understanding it.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    It seems to not be available for North America, am I missing something?
     
  15. donShere

    donShere Hardcore Simmer

    Almost didn't recognise Aris. :p
     
    Jack_NL likes this.
  16. demetri

    demetri Hardcore Simmer

    I think you can buy it here as well: https://andres.shop/. It says "Worldwide shipping"
     
    Cote Dazur likes this.
  17. Proody

    Proody Racer

    ... taxes and duties?
    It come from russia ? or ?
     
  18. demetri

    demetri Hardcore Simmer

    I think so, it's a small Russian company that sells these made in China pads. No idea about taxes/duties due, that's probably country-specific.
     
    Proody likes this.
  19. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Immersion is the goal and using telemetry data to generate some sort of realistic vibration is immersion. You didn't understand me right. There's many voices these days claiming you can have all sorts of nonsense signals mixed into your FFB or vibration motors for "immersion" and that's rubbish. That's what I was trying to convey.
     
    demetri likes this.
  20. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    Sorry, what I understood is that you were interested in ways to go faster, but not so much in ways to make believe we are actually driving a car. Not that there is any thing wrong, in my view, with either. I apologize for my mistake and misunderstanding your statement.

    In my case, I will always favor any thing that will make me believe I am actually driving, even if it is at the expense of making me slower.
    In other words, when I am SIM racing, I am trying to simulate the real life experience feeling, a lot more than trying to actually win.

    Trying to win can also be an attempt at simulating real life racing, but I find that it is often achieved using a way of driving and a way of setting cars that would not work in real life, which for me has no interest and, to me , is counter productive to achieve the kind of simulation I am after.

    So if a certain car is supposed to slightly over steer, has soft suspension and a cockpit view that is not ideal in real life, that is the way I want to drive it in my SIM, I will try to drive it as fast as I can, but I will not adopt a "sim" setup to make it faster, as it would distract from simulating that particular vehicle. I understand other see it differently, I am perfectly fine with it, nothing wrong, just different goals and experience. The same way I will not race online flat shifting or using paddles in a classic car, just so my lap time are better.

    Same with any hardware I use, I want my wheel FFB to be more like a real car rather than a "SIM" FFB. I don't want to over feel anything, to compensate for missing feeling we get in real moving car but not in a static seat. I want the brakes to feel like real brakes, etc...

    So if a $200 seat cushion can get my racing seat any closer, even if it is only slightly closer, I am in. If I get any speed from it, alleluia!

    About using this seat cover, do I absolutely need a second sound card to use this? if I do , will a USB Beringher UCA 202 work?
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
    Mike1304 and elchshooter like this.
  21. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    My friend, I believe we are talking about the same thing. You like features (rumble etc.) that make you feel more like you drive the real car. I also want that. If you feel more like you drive that car, you will also be faster - agree?
     

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