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Laptimes in wet conditions

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Axel Vogelsang, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Axel Vogelsang

    Axel Vogelsang Simracer

    I still wonder if the laptimes in the different wet conditions are comparable to real life.
    Sometimes it feels like the car has even more grip on a wet than on a dry track.

    I went out for a ride in heavy rain at Monza yesterday.

    Besides that I am about 2-3 seconds slower than the pace of the front running AI (in dry conditions I have the same pace as the AI at skill level 100) I am not sure if the breaking points on a wet track are so close compared to those in dry conditions which ends up in laptimes just about 10-12 seconds slower in heavy rain(!) than the laptimes in dry weather.

    It seems to be more challenging to keep the car on track on the straights and in Curva Grande than during breaking or accelerating.

    I think I have to test it at Misano later where we have a real life reference from last years race with a time gap of about at least 20 seconds between dry and wet conditions.

    So my question is: are the rain physics already as intended and is that realistic regarding grip level especially during decelerating, cornering and accelerating on curbs?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019

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  3. Jarkko Torvinen

    Jarkko Torvinen Simracer

    About the braking points, on rain you are cornering slower and accelerating from exit slower, so the speed at the end of the straight is slower requiring less time to brake. But yeah on Monza you pick up quite much speed on straights still, feels a bit off.
     
    Freddie Seng likes this.
  4. Axel Vogelsang

    Axel Vogelsang Simracer

    I am aware that the grip level on wet tires is still enormous in GT3 cars but even Jan Seyffarth once said, it feels a bit unreal in ACC in rainy weather.
    (I DON'T WANT TO START ANOTHER "REAL LIFE DRIVER IN SIM RACING"-DISCUSSION!)
     
    sissydriver and Jarkko Torvinen like this.
  5. Aristotelis

    Aristotelis Will it drift? Staff Member KS Dev Team


    You "feel" more grip because the rain tyres have wider slipangles, everything happens "slower", with "wider" margins and with more time to react.
    Monza is a particular track, the slow corners are... quite slow and racing rain tyres have big amounts of grip, even in the rain. So in those slow corners you have lots of grip to deal with.
    What catches out always in the rain is the high speed. At high speed, the standing water can cause aquaplaning and this is dangerous. That's why you feel such difficulties at the straights and curva grande. Also consider that Monza has good draining asphalt, this keeps puddles to form even at heavy rain.

    ACC does not simulate rain as a simple lower grip surface. ACC actually simulates the rain film over the asphalt. The tyres, depending on their tread, wear, load, temperature and many other factors, can successfully drain the water out and thus giving good grip, or... not. In that situation the grip goes away VERY fast. That's the difficulty of rain driving. It's unpredictable and snappy. If you had just "lower grip" then you would be accustomed and able to form muscle memory... but that's not the case in ACC.

    The rain setup is always very safe. To be faster you need to use less TC, but you arrive at a point that it is dangerous or slower... you need to go out of your comfort zone to start catching the AI.
    Furthermore, rain in ACC induces rolling resistance and aero resistance. You top speed, especially at a circuit like Monza, in heavy rain conditions, can be 10 to 15 kmh less on par of aero setup. So this means that you arrive at your braking point with much less top speed, thus the not so long braking distance. The best thing a driver has in rain conditions in a GT3 ABS equipped car is... braking.

    Finally, I have all the respect for any driver that will give feedback for our sim and Jan Seyffarth is entitled to his unbiased opinion that I listen and see if I can improve, but I also have GT3 drivers that I met and talked with them and with their engineers in almost all the GT3 races like Raffaele Marciello, David Perel, Alex Frassinetti, Romain Monti, and many more that keep driving ACC and telling us that the rain simulation is something never experienced before in a racing simulation. We will try to improve even more.
     
    Mai_88, LeiF, emha76 and 36 others like this.
  6. Axel Vogelsang

    Axel Vogelsang Simracer

    Tons of appreciation and thanks to you for your quick and convincingly reply, Aris!
     
    sissydriver, natloz76 and Aristotelis like this.
  7. Axel Vogelsang

    Axel Vogelsang Simracer

    I have just found this video of Federico Leo testing at Monza and performing some constant 2:04,xxx in slightly/medium wet conditions. Don't know details about tires or other circumstances in this test. But it might be some sort of reference.

     
  8. sissydriver

    sissydriver Alien

    that is a lot slower - with the godzilla at long hotstint event under 2.00 was no problem. there might be something different.
     
  9. Poguinhas

    Poguinhas Alien

    One thing that caught my attention on that video is that the trees seem to be completely bald, so maybe this was done during the winter on very cold temperatures. Maybe this, as well as the rain, can help explain the slow times.
     
  10. Axel Vogelsang

    Axel Vogelsang Simracer

    Multiple seconds? I don't think, that this is comparable to "Stormy" conditions in ACC. There seems to be even a semi dry line. The video was uploaded in march. A lot of variables though...
     
  11. Axel Vogelsang

    Axel Vogelsang Simracer

  12. Poguinhas

    Poguinhas Alien

    Well, perhaps the storm on ACC needs to be more stormy.
     
  13. Axel Vogelsang

    Axel Vogelsang Simracer

    Or the other rain scenarios should offer a bit more water...;)
     
  14. iVG

    iVG Alien

    I think braking under wet conditions is too grippy in ACC. You can see from the video above that he is almost coasting towards the chicanes, whereas in AC you can just bash the brakes and ABS will stop you. Coming out of corners is good, nice and slidey, the only area where ACC is grippier is braking. See it's not even raining in the video, just a wet track with some puddles and still he does 2:04+ lap times. Maybe he wasn't pushing it ? But maybe grip under braking is just too good in ACC...
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019

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