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League Proposal

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Joe Kelley, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. rge75

    rge75 Simracer

    The lap times are not comparable to other peple though because it depends on the settings (grip level). So it should probably be mentioned that wee ran with 93% grip. AFAIR, I did 1:28.2xx or 1:28.1xx yesterday while Cote Dazur had 1:28.8xx (not sure). But we were 3 driver within 1:28. @fatkrakr even did a low 1:27 on the first race.
     
    Cote Dazur likes this.
  2. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    I don't know how many driver can race on my server at the same time, the most I have seen is 8. I am not sure but I think ping willcould be an issue as I don't know how stable my internet is, this server in running on my personal PC at home. I am not considering it as a viable alternative for "serious " championship.
    For now, for the 3 of us plus guest, it will do fine though.
    I am also, somehow flexible with time. As an example I am available for either time on Saturday, but I can only commit to one and may be able to attend the other time.
    My opinion about on "for fun" as opposed to more serious is that for fun usually yield better racing, I believe trying to win as opposed to trying to race makes driver push too hard creating more incident. I have personally no satisfaction from being faster than anyone else on a particular day on a particular track and in a particular car. I have a lot of satisfaction racing anyone with my pace waiting on a good opportunity to pass, or waiting to be passed, even if no one pass anyone. Driver motivated by winning will try to bad pass too soon and knock you of with everyone being sorry instead of happy as the result. I Could not care less who end up winning with a 10 second advantage.
    The only competition is against myself trying to be a better, consistent, faster driver, to be able to have interesting racing with (not against) the other drivers.
    Last note, turning my head yesterday on the starting line with my VR goggles and seeing your (avatars) cars next to me as if I was there, Priceless!
     
  3. rge75

    rge75 Simracer

    Like you say, your local PC/server most probably wouldn't work for a "serious" championship. The idea of renting one and charging for a slot...difficult to achieve IMO. You actually simply have to accept that the interest in classic F1 online racing isn't that big in AC (otherwise there would be more than 3 or 4 contributors in this forum). So having to pay to race won't work. If people want to pay, they would probably join iRacing ;-) Let's face it, people today want things for free. Why should somebody want to pay for the server if they have some other good AB servers for free to race on?

    Regarding the topic of "just for fun" - it doesn't mean you're allowed to wreck your car (I don't consider that as fun). Racing for fun means "have good battles BUT stay a gentleman driver". To me, it's no fun if I crash into the back of somebody else because I feel guilty. Aside that, "self preservation" should always be the number one rule. You don't want to crash your car (it anyway happens still too often to me though if I'm pushing the car, but I'm working on it). The reason why I'm interested in racing in a league is because you see the same drivers and you may have good clean races. BUT, actually I can have the same experience on Cote Dazur's server or also on my two favorite AB servers. The more you join, the more you see the same people and you start to learn which person has similiar skills or which driver is "out of reach". With that said, I'm still intersted into a league but not at all costs. If it's going to happen, fine. If not, then I'll keep racing on streetfighter LW, Aloog1 and Cote Dazur Classic. I'd say lets continue practicing and if we have some "good, clean drivers" on Cote Dazur Classic, we can still ask if he'd be interested in regular races and point him to this forum thread.
     
    Cote Dazur likes this.
  4. Joe Kelley

    Joe Kelley Racer

    I cannot share a viewpoint that is not my viewpoint, but I can read another viewpoint and I can try to understand it. In my experience the points race inspired me to drive with much greater care when passing or being passed by someone else, as failure to finish a race was a failure to gain points: we ran full length races.

    Just for fun can mean anything to anyone, and it can mean something one day for someone, and it can me something else for the same individual another day: it is just a phrase. The actual driving done in the first League Test Session, with Cote Dazur hosting, was an intense session (for me) of close racing only because Cote Dazur decided to park his car in my rear-view mirror. I thought it was a lot of fun, and I was forced to learn how to concentrate on learning the new car, learning the new track, and drive with care while another car was very close to me on the track. Not just 3 things, just for fun, if a list was made, the work load, which is easily work overload, was:

    1. Learn new car
    2. Learn new shifting points
    3. Learn new braking points
    4. Learn new shifting method: clutch and stick shift
    5. Learn new apex points
    6. Learn new force feedback feed back feel
    7. Learn my best racing line around the new track
    8. Learn off- racing-lines, moving over to allow passing, lines around new track
    9. Learn more at once than I can safely handle and do so without confidence under pressure

    That number 9 above to me was something to be avoided during a championship points race, the odds of finishing under those conditions were unacceptably increased.

    My thinking on pay to play is also not the thinking expressed by someone else. To me, for me, I'm ready to buy one month, at least, at the price already reported, a bargain price for sure, so as to get one month of championship racing started, run through, and finished. The idea of asking other people to transfer their tokens is an idea to remove me as the championship organizer, leader, whatnot. If it is worth the investment in time and energy, it most certainly is worth a few tokens for 1 month by each driver.

    If it is just me renting one month, then it is a one month championship season, perhaps with only me racing myself.

    If it is 3 drivers renting one month each, then it is a three month championship season, perhaps with only three people, each leading their own part in the championship, racing against each other for three months.

    Many obstacles solved, in my way of thinking, with one solution. Those who are in for a quick fix, without investment, may not be ready for, or even wanting, a championship points season. If not this year, maybe next year, I'm in no hurry.

    The difference between racing close with someone trusted and racing close with someone who proves that they cannot be trusted is not a slight difference, not in my experience. The rule, not the exception, when racing on the same track with those who prove they cannot be trusted is to be crashed into by those who prove they cannot be trusted. When I was in the points race I'd see those drivers in my rear view mirror and I would get off the track to let them by, and my methods worked to improve my position in the championship. Those I could trust proved that they could be trusted because the exception, not the rule, was an occasional mistake standing out like a sore thumb compared to many more clean encounters on the track, lap after lap. "Sorry" from someone untrustworthy is not the same thing as "sorry" from someone earning trust. Sorry on lap 1, 3 times, then sorry 4 more times on lap 2, then sorry only once for 3 more laps, then sorry 5 times on the next lap, is not someone who is sorry about being sorry. In a close points season, having a few points separating one driver from another driver, raises the pressure while at the start, into the first turn, and each successive lap, when compared to racing just for fun, but the sweat still pours when the pressure goes up in either case, for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  5. Joe Kelley

    Joe Kelley Racer

    I don't care who does this, but I care about this being done, and done right.

    I sent the following:

    ______________________________________
    I am new to Assetto Corsa, and I want to compete in a Championship League with Classic F1 cars. These Assetto Corsa configured servers look like a very good deal to me.
    The price per month on a server appears to be very competitive: a bargain at 6.50 Euro or 6.85 USD per month.
    Do I pay with a credit/debit card, and if I choose a Kansas (US) based server what will the performance difference for me, or someone in Europe be, compared to a European server?
    Me, in California, connected to Kansas is: X
    Me, in California, connected to Europe is: Y
    Switzerland client, connected to Kansas is: A
    Switzerland client, connected to Europe is: B
    What level of support is available for a host/buyer using these bargain servers? I have very little experience running a server?
    ________________________________________

    I sent that to rackservice.org.

    Information is better than ignorance.

    The Sim Dream Development people sent me a new download link, and I now have all 8 Sim Dream Development cars.
     
    Cote Dazur likes this.
  6. rge75

    rge75 Simracer

    Thanks, Joe.

    For today's practice. Will it be 4pm GMT or 9pm GMT? I'd rather prefer 9pm because I might join the streetfigther special event this after-noon.
     
  7. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    I am fine with both, I also prefer 9pm.GMT, let me know.
     
  8. Joe Kelley

    Joe Kelley Racer

    9pm GMT is fine with me.

    From rackservice.org is this:

    ____________________________
    Payments are done through PayPal. There you can choose if you want to pay with a PayPal account or simply checkout with a Debit / Credit Card. Payments are done on a monthly basis, 7 days before your server expires an invoice is created. If you complete the payment the server is renewed for 1 month. Else the server is suspended at its due date.

    Below the ping results for the requested A to B locations:

    California > Kansas: 40 ms ping (From Los Angeles)
    California > Europe: 155 ms ping (From Los Angeles)
    Switzerland > Kansas: 133 ms ping
    Switzerland > Europe: 32 ms ping

    We are here to help you with your server, if you do not know how to configure it, we're here to help you and teach you how to do so. If you do not come out, we can always do it for you.

    Feel free to let me know if you have more questions / doubts
    ______________________________

    If I buy/run/maintain a server where do you think it is going to be located?
     
  9. rge75

    rge75 Simracer

    So no matter what server you have - pings around half the world simply aren't that great.

    ok, cu at 9pm in that case.
     
  10. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    9pm it is

    The server is up right now and will be all day.
     
  11. Joe Kelley

    Joe Kelley Racer

    That was a lot of fun. Not sure if it was preventable but twice during practice my car was punted off the track and each time that happens I will exit the server. If someone does not want me on the track then they can just say so, they don't need to punt me off the track. After the second time I figure it was time to park the car until the next event.
     
  12. rge75

    rge75 Simracer

    I haven't seen the replays, so I don't know what happened or who punted you off. But as you may have noticed there were some unexperienced drivers on the server every now and then who don't have the car under control yet. Also during race, there were quite some drivers spinning away in front or behind me. In the end, always the same 3 or 4 people are still in the race - but those few drivers have a lot of fun together. Even though I did not have direct battles with you today, I noticed that your times were within those of the others. So you're for sure competitive and welcome. As usual @fatkrakr simply was a bit too fast for us though ;-)
     
  13. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    I am the admin of that server, since it is mine, no one else.
    I did not kick you off, some disconnect can happen, there was a big group at one point, maybe too much for my set up! Ping was also pretty high, but I did not noticed too much wrapping around the track, so that was good.
    Very nice session for me, good racing, overall even the people who could not handle the car behaved reasonably well in the situation.
    I am game for session like that any time.
    @fatkrakr is one step above, maybe he needs a little ballast for closer racing.;)
    On an other note, this morning was also great, I love the concept of chasing each other on a mountain road.
    About the laps? Would 15 be even better?
    This proves to me that we do not need to be a zillion people on the track, just a bunch of regulars with similar pace. Pace is the Key, as an example I cannot race @fatkrakr, he his too fast for me.
    Thank you for showing up this afternoon, let's discuss where we want to race next. Maybe by then @Joe Kelley server will be up and running, I would not mind chasing a Ferrari next.:D
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  14. Joe Kelley

    Joe Kelley Racer

    My plan, after serious discussion with the boss (wife, and financial guru), is to have a server purchased for February, see how that goes, and then consider options for populating, maintaining, funding, another month, or more, for a Championship Points Season.

    Minorating and sTracker are offered for 1.50 Euro extra, per month, and to me that is still a bargain.

    To be clear: I volunteer to leave the server when someone punts me off the track. I am thereby giving myself time to cool off, like counting to 10 before allowing my temper to control me. If some drivers can control themselves, then why can't other drivers do the same? I call the phenomenon of having drivers who cause accidents regularly: Demolition Derby.

    If I wanted Demolition Derby I'd ask for it, and I'd find it, and I'd be happy with Demolition Derby.

    If I punt someone off the track my plan is to exit the server in the effort to teach myself to avoid punting other drivers off the track: on a regular basis.

    I just want to be clear about me and when punting occurs and when I prefer to leave the server when punting happens: especially on a regular basis.

    The fun of driving, lap after lap, getting closer, then getting farther away, from drivers ahead, and drivers behind, lap after lap, is like a huge carrot, and a huge stick, as it becomes possible, with great care, to decrease the gap between the car ahead, lap after lap, and it becomes possible, to be happy about this carrot, to entertain the idea that a clean pass, passing the driver ahead, passing the car ahead, as if that carrot can be eaten. It is as possible, lap after lap, with some drivers, to increase the gap with the car behind, as if the car behind was someone with a big stick, or baseball bat, or some other inspiration to get away from the driver, and the car, in the rear view mirror.

    On the first voluntary exit from the server, after being punted off the track, I unzipped helicorsa, but I did not figure out how to enable it in the game. Helicorsa is now a folder in my apps/python folder, along with chat, gmeter, and system. I'll figure that out sooner or later. I have yet to remount TrackIR and I may not do so. VR goggles sounds like fun. I used TrackIR for WWII Combat Flight Simulation, before that was overrun with hackers.

    New drivers can be put in slower cars, and when they can drive around the track without causing accidents alone, or with other drivers, then they can earn the faster cars, in my opinion.

    10 laps for now is what I can manage with my left arm locked up with arthritis, currently under treatment that started Friday, next treatment is Monday, with no more lockup hopefully by February.

    Ballast for a driver who chooses ballast, or a handicap (late) start for a driver who chooses that type of handicap, is an option during a racing session and during a Championship Season, or the Alien/Fast driver can try to win every race, every Championship. I think involuntary handicap is just one other way to let drivers know that they are not welcome in the race.

    These Classic cars are a lot of fun, to me, with the ability to manipulate engine braking and engine power when it is desired to oversteer, or drift, or whatnot: a lot of fun: thanks.

    As to the next race, I think Brands Hatch is good, not much different compared to Silverstone, but I'm fine with any working track.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  15. rge75

    rge75 Simracer

    I was fine with 10 laps. 12 might work as well, but 15 is also almost a bit "too long". It of course depends on the opponent and the race - if you have close racing, 15 is fun *g*. But if you're "lonely" and nobody within reach, 15 might feel a bit long. If the next track will be Brands Hatch (also ok to me), then we might go for some more laps because Brands is a shorter track. So maybe 12 or 15?

    Speaking of chasing up a hill. Maybe Pikes Peak would be worth a try?

    It's true, you don't need 20 cars if all the drivers are at the same level. But it simply looks more like a race if you have 10 cars instead of 4. I still hope for a '67 Ferrari from Kunos (let's vote for the right cars once the poll is up) because this would give some variety. Of course it would be even better to have the "slower" cars as well (Honda, BRM, Cooper) because this way, the faster drivers could take those. Anyway, @fatkrakr is very welcome because he drives clean and fair. It's always fun as long as he's behind you. Once he's ahead...well, we can't catch him anymore ;-)

    Speaking of diferent cars. @Joe Kelley, did SDD say anything about the sound issue on the Ferrari?

    Minorating is great for public servers IMO because you can lock out drivers who have a lot of crashes. For a league, it wouldn't be absolutely necessary because you'd probably password protect the server? For practice sessions, it's of course nice. Not sure what sTracker is about....have to google ;-)

    Leaving after being punted seems like punishing yourself, but it's your choice. But I hope you don't do this during races? Only in practice?

    Once Minorating is installed, you have to enable the app in the game. Start AC, go onto a track with any car and move the mouse cursor to the right side to get the list of all apps on the right edge. Then scroll down until you see the Minorating app and enable it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  16. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    @rge75 You wrote minorating but I guess you mean helicorsa.
    4 cars is too little, agreed, 10 is nice. Plus with 10 cars there is a better probability to have a few guys with similar pace. Having different performance cars choice allows different pace drivers to race at the same pace, much better solution than ballast. I think it is what make street fighter server to work so well. That and having enough drivers on the track at any given time.
    Any car sound can easily be replaced by an other car using Content Manager, maybe using the Lotus sound on the Ferrari mod can alleviate the Ferrari sound issues?
    Yes let's vote on having a competitor to the Lotus with official content. No offense to Modder's, which I am always great full for sharing their work, but most of the time the mod cars do not drive as well as Kunos original work and I am preferring driving the official content, particularly when racing, when just driving around, then I am ok, offline I usually give the mod cars to the AI.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
    rge75 likes this.
  17. fatkrakr

    fatkrakr Rookie

    Hey guys, was fun racing with you all. Its not very often you stumble across a group of clean racers online. Hope to find you all again soon.
     
    Cote Dazur and rge75 like this.
  18. Joe Kelley

    Joe Kelley Racer

    Options/General/UI Modules, then scroll down, finding Helicorsa in-game-app check box, then in the car, mouse moved far right, open app icon buttons, Helicorsa found when scrolling down to the bottom of the list.

    SDD did not address the sound issue in the return e-mail. I can deal with the SDD sound, or as already reported sounds can be swapped, and I used another Ferrari 312 car sound with success during tests with the open-source (stolen?) Ferrari. My ability to notice the subtle differences in car handling is not yet keen, or accurate, but I was getting close to that ability at Silverstone when my lap times began to repeat within the same 1 second range, give or take a few bad shifts, bad laps, or exceptionally good laps. The SDD Ferrari, as far as I could tell, last time I tried it, seemed a little loose in the rear end compared to the AC Lotus, but that may have been caused by me using the engine differently (different gears used and the engine may have been closer to peak power) or who knows what.

    It takes an application of will power to learn to drive without crashing, and some drivers may not understand this well, so the open server practice sessions, with password protected Championship Race sessions could become an opportunity to broadcast a standardized Chat Message during practice sessions, if a open server (new) driver responds in Chat with a request to join a password protected Championship Race, but they repeatedly cause crashes during practice, the opportunity to offer help, from anyone, in any form, to help the driver avoid causing crashes, could happen in that scenario.

    I know one of those who punted me was someone spun off the track, who then started back onto the track going across from far right to my racing line entering a right turn. Rule 1, look before returning to the track, and Rule 2, don't enter the racing line when not looking when returning to the track. The other punting incident was someone following very close on the same racing line entering a braking zone. Maybe someone like Cote can get away with that, but what happens when the one in front is pressured and makes an error by braking early? I think it is a good idea to get off-line, inside or outside, the car in front, when entering brake zones. That incident was just our 2 cars close. I do not have much experience with a lot of cars in a pack, 3 wide, or whatever, so I'll need help in those places: suffice to say that sudden changes are probably not safe when driving 3 waves of 3 wide, 9 cars, into turn 1.
     
  19. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    This is an excellent suggestion. As was mentioned previously, the apathy on this forum concerning this project is surprising to me.
    Maybe a similar thread, when the state of the project is better structured and more advanced, in the Assetto Corsa thread on the Race Department forum, could help raise the interest and participation.
     
  20. rge75

    rge75 Simracer

    The apathy indeed is surprising. It's not like people are not driving the classic content. Well, some try, don't success immediately and never try again. But I e.g. joined the Aloog1 today (nice combo with Maserati 250F at Mas du Col) and there were a couple of drivers and we had some close racing. Most people who joined, enjoyed it. Or course you also saw quite many who "failed" and spun a lot.

    I'm not at the Race Department forum, so I have no idea about their community. I at least learned that you'll find most tracks there and I suppose the forum is heavily populated. It for sure would be worth a try.

    Absolutely. And sometimes (in a race) you simply have to pass the field if the track is not empty. But I must say, most of the time I had good experience online so far. Exceptions confirm the rule though.
     
    Cote Dazur likes this.
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