Let's discuss iRacing - attempt #2

Well, iRacing has one big advantage over other sims, and that is the official service. Seriously, it's perfect, and had me motivated so much, that i didn't even mind the physics. But, racing in the Skippy was fun, but, one day i wanted to drive something different, and did some races in the Formula Mazda (ugh... the rear snaps faster than you can say "snap"... really bi*** of a car...) and the Formula Renault, which was better than the Mazda, but, it kind of had its issues for me too. It's a shame really, because i really loved the official service, and it leads to great races, because noone wants to end up with a bad safety, and iRating. It's like real racing, you don't want to wreck your car, and you want to score points. Unfortunately the physics basically are what spoiled it for me in the end, because i am a physics guy, and want the real experience, so i've been looking elsewhere, mostly AC as of late. I hope that Simracingsystem continues to evolve, and that the races happen a bit more frequently on a day, so that might become an alternative.

 

iRacing physics are excellent for most part, it probably simulates more stuff than any other sim, however as been said it suffers from an excess of tyre temperature effect; so it's going to highlight your mistakes more than any other sim. Of course that's not right, but if you manage the drive the car at the limit (or under) you shouldn't have any issues. On the other hand there are some sims that allow you to get away even if you overdrive the car, so those who are used to that suffer more with iRacing.

 

I have been on track a number of times with street tires and I found that different tires in different cars feel very different at the limit. Some cars and tires are more progressive & signal things more clearly while others tend to feel more abrupt and snap when you get toward the limit.

I do not have experience with slick tires on the track. But it has been my viewing experience that quite a few race cars seem to be pretty abrupt at the limit. I wonder if the difference between street tires and slicks accounts for some sim racer's perspectives on Tire Behavior. If we are imagining slicks to react like a friendly more progressive street tire.... that may be inaccurate and driving some common complaints and misperceptions?

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I feel for you OP

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I have come to the conclusion that it takes time to adjust between different racing games. I remembered after playing R3E for two months and then came back for
Assetto after a big uppdate I thought that the latest uppdate was to blame for that I had problems to drive the GT3s properly. I takes more time than you think to
adjust and drive near the limit to what that precise simulation limits are. Dont be to impatience when you switch between simulations and give time to adjust is
my experience. I subbed for a year in Iracing last year but never came over the tire model. After every new build I came back hoping for a change but it was always
in the same game breaking shape ( becouse off the unconfident feeling in the car). Maybe after my Discovery that you actually needs more time to adjust, I just was
not patience enough? Theres one thing that the tire model isnt the best and one thing that its actually something that you can adjust to.

 

Proof? Data? Thanks


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I agree with the OP. There seem to be fundamental flaws in the physics and tire model of iracing and the FFB feels like it has been implemented 10 years ago and never been touched again.
Having said that, iracing is still my main sim, because I enjoy the competitive racing and the comfort of having structured online racing at all times.
Some cars are really frustrating in iracing, because they are so twitchy and feel unrealistc to me (like the SpecRacer Ford, MX5, Corvette c6r, RUF ...) and I avoid them. But the more stable ones like the Skip Barber, while not great, at least let you focus on racing others instead of constantly having to worry how to keep the car on the track.

 

Very true. This is where AC fascinated me. I expected to have to learn it like all other but on the very first lap it felt so natural. Everything from braking distance to cornering speed, there were no wtf moments for me at all. I just did what i would do in a real car and it worked as i expected. There was no adjustment time needed at all.

 

Well you just need to look at the setup pages of their cars, I don't know of any sim that simulates differential and throttle map changes on the fly, or inerters in F1 cars, and many other bits. I also have data for a couple of cars they have and they indeed have real values for the setup adjustments.

 

Also if you are interested in what do they model, I copy paste this from their forum, it's a bit long though:

 

The stuff they model does nothing for me when the basics are flawed. When oversteer feels completely unnatural, making drifting properly impossible or feel bad, I couldnt care less for what features they have or not. The street RUF is almost impossible to drift in IR while its pure joy in AC.

 

Really impressive list.
The outcome though is that the feeling of cars are not appealing to many.
Personally I had a 3 months free subscription at summer of 2015 so I can't tell how it is currently.
I remember that I had no problems with how the cars felt.
FFB was good , sounds superb, graphics decent, online races great.

But i couldn't feel that I drive something with rubber. AC is the benchmark.


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Which street ruf do they have? Doesnt they only have race spec cars and they shouldnt be easy to drift, right? :/

 

The same one we have in AC, which is a street legal car, which should be able to drift. Its been a while but afaik IR felt dated when it comes to the limit of grip, either you have it or dont. In AC that part just feel so right. RF 1&2 and LfS also did that part much better than IR.
I still remember when IRacing devs stated that they will work on their physiscs after trying Netcar back then. Does someone remember and have a link, or was I dreaming?

 

But did you come with a clear mind in terms off not being to adjusted in a certain drivingstyle that the previus simulation allowed? I can admit that assetto is wery intuitive but after 2 months driving the R3Es GT3s the driving was not so intuitive as before.

 

Exactly the same as my feeling with AC at beginning. Than something broke with 1.2, and realised that input lag is my problem, when resolved I can't stop driving it...

 

I do not spend a lot of time trying to formally drift cars in racing Sims but I can say that I certainly have pushed the iracing street Ruf into oversteer many times and it is not that difficult to catch the oversteer after a small drift. IRacing just had a Gymkhana event with the Ruf and this happened many times on the circuit when I was trying it.

That being said this is the only street car with street tires in iRacing. So an obvious hypothesis is that they have spent far far less time modeling street tires than their racing tires. Clearly street sports cars are a primary strength of Assetto Corsa and barely an afterthought for iRacing. A very large number of people would disagree that the basics of iRacing are so flawed you can't have any enjoyment out of it. I suppose if you are only looking for drifting that might be the case but then why would you be focusing on iRacing if that was what you wanted?

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How ever i adjusted my self to all other software, it didn't get in the way or slow down my AC adjustment period. As i said, it was almost instant.
Before AC, i spent almost my entire time in iracing. I had to drive very loose cars to be able to hit fast times. I always placed my self high on the grid but never felt comfortable during races because dynamic changes in the traffic like different braking lines and lines through the corners made the cars feel out of their element and very suicidal. In AC the car can be loose but it's pretty safe to take different lines if i don't push it too much. I will do a slower time that lap but I'll stay alive to try better next lap. Cars in AC simply feel like they are on rubber, not wooden wheels.

 

The ability to drift cars very controlled, natural, just like in real life says a lot more about the sim then just being able to drift. Even in race cars, while much snappier of course, I can do some controlled over steer intuitively. The "Gegenpendler" (dont know english word) feels so weird in Iracing, I rarely could dirve with confidence at the limit. But yeah with street cars its sure more important.

 

Y'all think you should be able to drive like F1 champ both IRL and in sims reading this. I'd be curious to see how some of you would fare in a real car... might be a wake up call.

Personally I can switch to pretty much every sims and they feel alright enough that I can just get in and drive. Even freaking Wreckfest, so not sure what some of you are on about. Maybe you just cant drive and its all muscle memory. And that certain sims flatter subpar inputs more than others, even "at the limit".

Btw, iR's RUF RT12 is pretty bad. Tyres are WAY too grippy, not sure whats up with that. They clearly just said "screw it" and only brought it to get a couple "Porsche" racecars in the game. Never liked the latter anyway on there, they never felt right to me (not as bad for the C-Spec), as opposed to the few other GT cars.