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Lift off oversteer in tyres V10 vs tyres v7-

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by claudiopolez, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. claudiopolez

    claudiopolez Simracer

    Before creating a "physics bugs and issues" thread, I wanted a discussion on the matter. From what I gather there is way less lift off oversteer in the current version of AC compared to its older iterations.
    Try replicating this for example in the current version, as I can't:


    FWD Fiat500 @1:23


    So there are 3 statemnts:
    1) I am doing something wrong and lift off oversteer is still there just like in the vid above
    2) Lift off oversteer effect is less now but it is more realistic
    3) Lift off oversteer effect is less now and this is less realistic

    Which of them is valid?

    Please see this post for comparison of real life GT86 with pedal cam with the same car-track-corner in AC: http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...r-in-tyres-v10-vs-tyres-v7.46880/#post-914364

    and
    http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...r-in-tyres-v10-vs-tyres-v7.46880/#post-914446
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017

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  3. ouvert

    ouvert Alien

  4. liakjim

    liakjim Alien

    How can you be so sure? I am not trying to poke you since I also agree but were are the data that confirm this?

    Στάλθηκε από το m2 note μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
     
  5. ouvert

    ouvert Alien

    you don`t need data to backup everything .. less lift of oversteer in current TM is something you can tell on empiric base, more realistic is my guess .. never driven Ferrari but I assume it will have less tendency to LO oversteer than front heavy, front engined less sophisticated and less ballanced car .. i might be wrong of course
     
  6. unknwn

    unknwn Alien

    There also has been a topic not so long ago about Lotus Eclipse not having enough lift of oversteer compared to RL videos.
     
  7. claudiopolez

    claudiopolez Simracer

    Ok, it now seems like option 1 or 3 is the valid one after all - something's not right in my technique or there is a bug in AC v10 tyres.

    First, check out this "lift-off oversteer" vid with gt86 on Nurb, with nice pedals cam.

    @6:08


    Now my attempt in AC, same car same track, same corner, same (? please correct if not) lift off. Pay attention to the pedals app (eco tyres, "slow" track surface, 15C track temp):
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  8. esox71

    esox71 Alien

    In the first video IMO, The oversteer is done on the gas, He realizes this then lifts adding the momentum which was already started.
    edit: But yeah....There's yer joypad TM for you.
     
    William Levesque and liakjim like this.
  9. sacredaardvark

    sacredaardvark Hardcore Simmer

    Exige at least has more oversteer (lift off and otherwise) in v10 than in v7. Can't comment on other cars as I don't have enough time in them pre-v10, or enough time post-v10 for the few others I drove meaningful amounts in v7, to do a meaningful comparison.
     
  10. ouvert

    ouvert Alien

    first one is not LO ... isn`t it ? he is on throttle ..

    and in that second OP video .. for Fiat .. he is not really LO oversteering ... he is kind of skandinavian flicking into that LO ..
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  11. LATE4APEX

    LATE4APEX Alien

    My take is there is less LO now

    I miss the more pronounced version.
     
  12. OoALEJOoO

    OoALEJOoO Simracer

    The first video was not lift-off oversteer, the driver was pressing the throttle. Also, he did upset the car a bit as it still had left-turn inertia when he started to turn right.

    I am very impressed by how analytical you are to prove the physics, looking for evidence instead of just stating "I think such and such but I've never driven the real car". This is engineering thinking.
     
    LeDude83, chksix and paul_wev like this.
  13. claudiopolez

    claudiopolez Simracer

    Maybe this is a clearer example still, at 1:40 :
    Entering 2nd Nurb corner, no prior flicks or power oversteer, he lets off the gas and gt86 imediatly dives inside so he has to parry with some countersteer. Cant do that in AC atm, the car washes outwards if lift off at same corner...
    @1:40
     
  14. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    Liftoff oversteer and engine braking is a hot topic for me too. As we have released XJ13, and not everyone is happy with those characteristics, personally feeling the car stressed when coasting on high revs is immersive to me. I would like to understand what makes real cars to behave like that, how exactly the engine braking works, does it depend on something, for example throttle torque, or coasting torque is independant from that and so on.... Also if the cars doesn't have this behaviour, why ?

    Of course I understand that various factors are in play such as dampers, tires, inertia box, weight distribution, geometry.....

    Frequently threads about 918Spider being demanding on braking pops up, there are more cars in AC which requires skill to slow down for example Lotus 25, GT40 and Cobra might bite quite a lot if you are not careful coasting on low gears and high revs....

    What makes an engine to brake so hard ? Or it is just combination of many things, and engines has similar braking torques ?
     
    IgnacioKotas and claudiopolez like this.
  15. claudiopolez

    claudiopolez Simracer

    Cheers dude, evidence is king! :) Imho's are only acceptable from proven experts, I dont trust my own imho's outside of my professional domain :)
     
  16. liakjim

    liakjim Alien

    Yes the 1:40 is a clear LO.
    The car just left the pits though so the tyres are cold. Does this happens in sim too?
    Is this car stock?

    Στάλθηκε από το m2 note μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
     
  17. claudiopolez

    claudiopolez Simracer

    In the comms he said he has aftermarket shifter mech, air filter and "wayno's tune" which sounds like an engine remap : https://www.reddit.com/r/ft86/comments/5fwx1q/wayno_tune/

    My attempt to lift off at that same corner (start from pits to show that tyres are cold. Eco tyres, 15C, slow surface)
    Spoiler: I got nothing but understeer.
    actual corner @0:22


    Thats not to say that the question's settled, need more evidence to be put onto the scales of justice :)

    Feel free to add bits of track driving of cars that are reasonably certain to be stock that show lift off oversteer!
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
    LeDude83 likes this.
  18. mms

    mms Alien

    Your lines are different and you're turning the wheel to much that causes understeer. I get neutral response, no oversteer, no understeer on liftoff with this car in that corner... It has been my feeling for a while that front tires don't bite enough in AC, but that's only my feeling, don't have anything to back it up :(

    BTW, is he in 3rd gear through all those first corners??
     
  19. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    "joypad TM"?
     
  20. claudiopolez

    claudiopolez Simracer

    He has engine remap, see my post above. Which, if its the only tune he's done, shouldnt affect the LO behaviour much. Although it may mean he entered that corner at higher speed.

    Thats a very good point, I was rushing with my vid. I'll try again, see if I can replicate your neutral response.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
    mms likes this.
  21. TheBoss

    TheBoss Hardcore Simmer

    For me there is something that does not get to feel good, in the street cars seems very complicated to have a spin, the grip is perfect, there is no fear when releasing the accelerator or brake, it is always stable. I have already created some thread to try to demonstrate how the Lotus Elise is a spin-prone car, hundreds of videos on youtube prove it but will only receive the attack of the people.

    Cars like the Audi S1, Giulietta, MiTo and others seem really impossible to lose grip on their rear wheels. In Automobilista I feel better the car to the limit, as the errors are paid with a spin, hopefully one day Assetto feels this good to the limit.

    Video of the event of Assetto Corsa in Vallelunga

     

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