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Lift off oversteer in tyres V10 vs tyres v7-

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by claudiopolez, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. unknwn

    unknwn Alien

    Some Lotus lift oversteer footage to source physics for simulation experts:
    Some of below videos shows relatively quick inputs to recover the car but it's lost. By quick I mean compared to what average simmer can do with his consumer wheel.




     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
    softslider and hazardic like this.
  2. unknwn

    unknwn Alien

    5 video limit per post...:D




     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
    softslider, hazardic and IgnacioKotas like this.
  3. claudiopolez

    claudiopolez Simracer

    Need pedal cams, or telemtry. Not a single video above has them. Spins could be from sharp braking, overzealos trail braking, power oversteer etc etc. Video is useless if it does not show ALL driver's inputs.

    And another big question is:
    I.e. we already do a have a video of a pretty clear example of lift off oversteer by an admittedly highly tuned gt86. But can ANY car, with ANY setup replicate that behaviour in AC?
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  4. unknwn

    unknwn Alien

    They are not useless. Both hard braking or slow lift off is related to this topic. It's obvious from the sound, video, speedometer that spins occur during decceleration phase (either braking or lift off). You can try Elise in AC and it won't spin nasty like that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
    softslider and mms like this.
  5. TheBoss

    TheBoss Hardcore Simmer

    Whatever you do the elise will stay stable, your rear wheels are glued to the road. The hundreds of videos that are on youtube show how this car making mistakes takes you to spin, if the spin never occurs in AC I suppose there is some problem.
     
  6. Jos_theboss

    Jos_theboss Hardcore Simmer

    I agree, just drove it at the nords, planted, also drove the exige, what a tricky bugger that is, oversteer under brake, lift off oversteer, power oversteer. thats an entertaining car.

    what a difference between two roadcar lotuses.
     
  7. hristo1026

    hristo1026 Racer

  8. mrsmr2

    mrsmr2 Racer

    Comparing that poster's experience with mine (in a mk3 mr2 - so not the same car but similar handling traits) on handling circuits, and exercises of turning at speed with no throttle, I agree in general with his points. Can't comment on snap oversteer as I haven't driven an Elise like that (but have been a passenger numerous times at handling circuits) but I don't believe a road standard Elise will oversteer like some of those youtube videos.

    But, they will let let go, as will most cars, after the initial turn in at high speed.

    After my latest handling day three months ago (me, Boxster, Catherham, M3), I went straight to test out AC's Elise, and then tried out rf2's NSX around the original Top Gear track to replicate the high speed turn with no throttle. The Elise in this game simply does not let go, it just safely understeers. There is practically no way to make it dance with brake or throttle during cornering. The NSX in rf2 actually behaved more like the cars at the handling day.

    I did try a street Porsche, might have been the Cayman or Boxster, and I think that did want to let go. Therefore, I'd say the Elise is not quite right.
     
    IgnacioKotas and mms like this.
  9. claudiopolez

    claudiopolez Simracer

    Firstly, hard braking is not related to the topic of Lift off oversteer. Secondly, without pedal cam or telemetry you have no idea if the braking was hard, light, medium or none at all, we dont get the duration of the braking etc. Therefore all we get is vague speculation which is completely fruitless.

    Do you want a bet that Elise can be spun in AC? :)
     
    sacredaardvark and LeDude83 like this.
  10. unknwn

    unknwn Alien

    It is related assuming there is a lack of front end bite during weight transfer to the front.

    Therefore you can try doing all of those in AC and see what happens. Few laps on a track with different corners should give a good picture.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
    softslider and mms like this.
  11. chakko

    chakko Alien

    What is also an amazingly dynamic car is the McLaren F1 GTR. Oversteer and understeer in literally every corner, and a real handful, but very fun and entertaining to drive.

    In general, i feel like the inertia may be a tad too exaggerated in AC, causing most cars to rather be understeery. I really can't comment on former versions of the tire physics, because, frankly, i didn't use to drive AC all that much. Bought it pretty much when it came out, but, really got into it later. What i drove quite frequently is Netkar Pro though, and it used to be different, and had that latent "loose" feeling when you turned in. The FFB is much better in AC though, so, it's a bit difficult to compare. And the understeering feels much more realistic in AC than it did in Netkar Pro too.
     
  12. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    https://streamable.com/51q0y

    All I did was make the car have light understeer under power instead of the gross understeer it has on default setup. I used arb and tyre pressures to move the balance.

    Keep in mind that in these videos most likely every one of them panics and puts the brakes on once the slide starts, if you do that no matter how quick you are with your hands I'm sorry but it's gone. If you are even remotely decent driver in a sim you will have the opposite reflex of giving it some throttle to fix the oversteer. The fear of crashing the car in real life plays a decent role here.
     
    Ace Pumpkin, aphidgod and Dookie like this.
  13. unknwn

    unknwn Alien

    If you put on brakes in Elise in AC the front washes out/understeers and provides more stability. It has ~70% front brake balance which is high, but how much RL Elises have and do they act the same with such balance?
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
    mms likes this.
  14. chakko

    chakko Alien

    I don't see how that could be called lift off oversteer when you apply the brakes in the middle of the corner, when you turned in. Lift off oversteer is... lift off oversteer. ;)
     
    claudiopolez, hristo1026 and ouvert like this.
  15. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    https://streamable.com/2oxgg
    Aaaaaand elise with the brakes. All I'm doing is making the car light understeer again instead of gross understeer by default....you can see out of last corner power understeer all day long. And yet...get in T1 with the brakes on and it's gone.
     
    sacredaardvark likes this.
  16. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    The slide starts way before the brakes and my reaction is exactly what all the noobs in the videos are likely doing.

    If you prefer to see something else in there then keep going. I wasted enough time already it feels like.
     
  17. ouvert

    ouvert Alien

    well to be fair you applied some brake at the same time you lift off ... that what is he refering to I guess .. probably not enough to make difference though ..
     
  18. liakjim

    liakjim Alien

    Are all elises on real videos modified? Only in step3 is possible to alter arb.
     
  19. unknwn

    unknwn Alien

    You threw off car balance by initial turn in + slight but constant brakes at very high speed. I don't think any of those videos shows something similar, mostly calm line nearing apex with either brakes (in your videos you show ~20% brakes which seems to be more of a balancing act instead of panic braking as you say most likely happened in those RL spins) or lift off. But why would anyone slightly apply the brakes as in your video prior and through whole corner when they are scared of spinning? Wouln't more intuitive panic reflex be to hard stab on brakes? Hard brakes in AC causes understeer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  20. mms

    mms Alien

    I was trying for the last half hour to reproduce this again and again, without success, it looks like I'm just not good enough to spin this car :(

    I set the same tires pressure and tried to match toe and camber as close as possible to the one shown in the video.
     
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