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Lift off oversteer in tyres V10 vs tyres v7-

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by claudiopolez, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. MrDeap

    MrDeap Hardcore Simmer

    Drive better :p
  2. hristo1026

    hristo1026 Racer

  3. ouvert

    ouvert Alien

    well killing rear tyres to prove physics point is bit crazy :) .. same with creating some extreeme setups if possible ... my guess is that people spinning in real life are not deliberatelly messing up their suspension setup and tyre pressures .. certainly not driving against wall to wear tyres off :)
    mms likes this.
  4. chakko

    chakko Alien

    I'm just wondering why you apply the brakes when you want to demonstrate lift off oversteer. Obviously, braking contributes to oversteer, when you turned in. If you want to demonstrate how you can lift off oversteer the car, then try it without applying brakes.

    And, BTW, turning it too much causing the car to drift before you let off the throttle isn't lift off oversteer either. You'll have to be steering "on the limit", and, while turning in, you let off the throttle suddenly, or not so suddenly, and the car will oversteer, simply because the load will change from the rear tires to a more balanced load, making the rear tires lose grip.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
    hazardic and chksix like this.
  5. mms

    mms Alien

  6. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    You have a weird sense of where the limit and what a drift is because I'm way under the limit at front and rear, especially rear, before the lift even if the tyres make noise. I'm in a perfectly controlled light understeer, a state I would want a simple track car to be. If I don't lift off the car stays there, forever.

    No brakes. Same setup as the other vid.


    @liakjim It's the 240R that's why I have arb adjustment.

    If there is anything wrong it's the default setup balance, when a car understeers like a firetruck of course you can throw anything at it and it won't spin.
    claudiopolez likes this.
  7. Mogster

    Mogster Alien

    As most (all?) of the videos posted are track day videos you've no idea what state their tyres are in.
  8. chakko

    chakko Alien

    Fair enough man, that surely looks like lift off oversteer. :) Anyway, not to be misunderstood: I don't think it's entirely impossible in AC, i rather ask myself, if, in general, there isn't a bit too much understeer tendency, where the car should rather get loose on the rear. Hard to put in words, and describe, and surely very unscientific (sorry Lord Kunos ;)). And, to get it straight: I really like ACs physics. I've been driving a lot of laps yesterday in the BMW Z4 TG3 in iRacing, and, i must say, that i once again was a bit disapointed about the handling there. Much too loose, snappy and twitchy (i mean... seriously... GT3's are easy to drive, and surely not as twitchy as they're in iRacing...). They already implemented a new tire model for the GT3's, to lower the effect of overheating tires, but, there's really something general which is wrong there. Hence people call it "iceRacing", it's just too twitchy, and the grip is simply too low. And the transition from a planted car state to drifting is a bit off too. I really prefer AC in that regard. It's just that... it could be a tad more loose, on the other hand. ;)
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  9. ouvert

    ouvert Alien

    yes but would somebody sane put new tyres on front and basically destroyed overheated tyres on rear? and than make setup as loose on rear as car suspension allows .... simple overheating tyres would make them for next few corners bacically like on ice (according to Bruno Spengler on next corners after lock up). Also that lotuses behaviour is described as general car characteristics .. not amateur track day weared tyres anomaly ...
    And I`m not commenting on AC accuracy .. just questioning the methods of providig 'proof' with setup changes and massive disballance between front and rear wear ...
    I dont recall how LO oversteer is in AC, I know in AMS you get plenty in some cars but in AC I only remember it is not super hard to spin .. mostly on brakes or throttle if you are sloppy in wrong car ...
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
    mms and Mogster like this.
  10. hristo1026

    hristo1026 Racer

    I tried to recreate this exact behavior of the car that was described (the only way to do it was by using this unusual and unrealistic approach) for those of you who are curious how the car is behaving and want to try it,the others of you who are not curious just forget it.:)
  11. ouvert

    ouvert Alien

    well show us .. wont hurt to see that expected oversteer .. I`m far away from my rig to test anything ;)
  12. hristo1026

    hristo1026 Racer

    Unfortunately me too,sorry.
  13. claudiopolez

    claudiopolez Simracer

    Sweet, there is LO overster in current AC after all !
    I have just tried other modern Lotus cars and found that 2-11 (both street and gte) is a joy, very reactive to what you are doing with the gas pedal, slight lift makes it dive inside, a true MR experience. Same story with the Exige 240R, Evora S/GTE/carbon.
    3-11, on the other hand is "a dog", with no settings to ARB making it abandon its understeery nature. You lift gas and the car hardly reacts. Elise is similar, there is *some*reaction, but very very little.

    I'd upload vids, but my internet is megaslow today.
  14. chakko

    chakko Alien

    A bit unrelated, but, i drove a lot of laps today with the Ferrari 488 GT3. What a beauty BTW, really lovely handling, oversteer, understeer, power oversteer, you name it. After some laps at Spa and Barcelona GP, i watched this video:

    It's pretty scary how close to that this car feels. Have the guys at Kunos driven the car themselves? Or was the data particularly good. Seriously, it's amazing. I surely know what i'll be driving the next weeks. :) Also made me wonder why i wasted my time on the Z4 and the Audi LMS, whenever i drove GT3, hehe.

    Anyway, as i mentioned, a bit unrelated, but, totally restored faith again. ;)
    claudiopolez likes this.
  15. claudiopolez

    claudiopolez Simracer

    Yep, I've not had much time to think about this since the weekend, but from the (once again circumstantial) evidence that I've picked up, current AC lift off behaviour is credible. Older MR cars like the F40 oversteer on lift off, particularly if you lift off at high revs and/or while facing downhill. From Ferrari owners forums:

    Meanwhile AC's 458 is more mild with LO oversteer and seems to echo this owner's post:

    I still have questions, but the situation is certainly looking like "2) Lift off oversteer effect is less now but it is more realistic" to me now :)
    IgnacioKotas likes this.
  16. hazardic

    hazardic Alien

    what a relief to see ac simulation value is still there:)
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